Transcript of The After Show: The Hunt for Mr. Right (Part 2)

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Hi there, everybody, and welcome to 2020 The After Show. I'm Deborah Roberts, and you may remember one of our recent episodes, we brought you the story of Sue Markham, a beloved professor at American University who, sadly, was murdered in her own home. It's a story involving a man named Jorge Lenderos, who authorities say made his way into Sue Markham's life. He was a yoga instructor, her Spanish teacher. Police I would say, though, he was also a manipulator. Well, after 12 years, he was arrested and then eventually found guilty in a court of law for Sue's murder. And after sentencing, the big question is, will justice finally be served for Sue Markham's family? Well, 2020 contributor, Pat Lalama, joins us now. She has followed this case from the beginning, has big thoughts on what the warning signs are in a story like this for others. And Pat, talk to me a little bit about the court case, because that's where you really, I think, just do your thing. You sit up and you take notice and you report these stories in a way that nobody else does. Talk to us a little bit about the trial and what that was like for you witnessing it.

It was quite interesting. The first observation I made as a long-time trial reporter was that everybody was female. The judge was female. The two prosecutors were female. The two defense attorneys were female. The clerk was female. Even Some of the bailips were female. Interesting. But you know what? In my mind, even though it was a nice observation to see women in powerful positions in the criminal justice arena, it was no different than any other trial because these were tough people. They sparred and argued as much as anyone else, and the judge was as stern as any that I had seen. But it was interesting because I wanted to see how the defense was going to play this whole issue of Sue making her own choices and that she wasn't trapped.

A woman who is a smart, strong woman who, by some people's accounts, should have been able to sniff this out.

Exactly. And that did ultimately become part of it. But the prosecution revealed some good evidence. I mentioned the screen that was pushed out and not in. I mentioned all the financials, even though he wasn't charged with financials. The emails, the judge told the jury, You're not looking at the emails for fact, as to whether the events stated in the emails are true. You're looking at them for her state of mind. That was the important distinction, that the jury had to say, Oh, she was really, really in a bad place because of this man. That was the prosecution's case that she was getting deeper and deeper. He started to see her as trouble because the money was running out and she was just beside herself. They also had the DNA evidence, which was profound.

That was the motivation that they were portraying, too, when they actually tried to lay out this case, that he was basically done with her.

He was done with her, absolutely done with her. Now, the defense did its job and did it well. Every single piece of the investigation was challenged. There were some things, even the lead investigator said, Yeah, I wish in hindsight, I had tested that piece of blood or looked at this particular thing. But overall, and we know that's the job of the defense, is to create reasonable doubt. So while as infuriating as I could see it was to the Markham family, because I was watching them. Every time they would try to rip apart the forensics and the investigators and the DNA, it had to be done because that's their job. And they did it. And there were times when I thought, I don't know, is this jury going to collectively decide that everything was good or there was enough of a question?

There was enough doubt being planted there. Right.

And they did a great job, and they were very theatrical, and it was good. It was compelling, but we know what happened in the end.

There is so much more to unpack in this case, and Pat has more to share, so don't go away. We're going to talk more when we come back.

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Welcome back to 2020, The After Show. In October of 2025, this case finally came to closed, the jury found Landeros guilty of second-degree murder, interestingly, after an eight-day trial, the evidence against him, as you said, included DNA matches from a broken tequila bottle found at the scene. Under her fingernails, there was DNA there. But why second-degree murder and not first-degree murder?

I love to try to impart what knowledge I have about the law. So it's never clear that Jorge Landeros Caderos, drove from Mexico to Bethesda to kill her. I mean, if I'm sitting on the jury, I think I would have some questions. Did he go visit her, but it turned into a fight because she was bringing up madder and a heat of passion thing. So I can understand that. I do understand that.

That they went for what they could prove.

Exactly. But the reason why the jury was given the second-degree option to consider is because of that very fact. Now, what the prosecution argues is, Deborah, that premeditation can happen between individual blows. He has an option to stop, to to stop attacking and causing her death. Then when he goes from the tequila bottle to this, another opportunity to say, Okay, no. That is premeditation. But I have found in my travels that it seems to be a bit of a difficult theory for people to grasp. I think in this case, they did their best. I think they did a great job. It's interesting because the prosecutors called it the perfect verdict, and it was like, Well, how is that a perfect verdict? You didn't get first degree. But they knew what they were doing when they said to the judge, Please also give them the second-degree instruction, because they anticipated that premeditation- And that the jury might wrestle with that. Exactly. And they did. And you know what? They deliberated for a little less than eight hours. There was a lunch break in between. And the minute the clerk came out and said, We got a verdict, I thought, Okay, that is not good for the defense.

Because there was a lot of DNA to go through. And so we knew. But even I was always trying to maintain objectivity. But even in the courtroom, when they said to the charge of first-degree premeditated, not guilty, I looked over at everybody. I mean, just because when you're involved, you're human and you do have a reaction. I thought, well, what does that say for the second degree? But then they came back and proof that juries do work, and they are very committed citizens.

They're very logical people, too. I've covered stories like that, too, where you wonder, how is it you didn't get this particular charge, but you got that particular charge? The family sometimes is disappointed, but prosecutors have to go for what they feel they can prove. Exactly. In the end, they did put somebody in jail, in prison for a crime.

That's why a rush to judgment is never a good idea. No matter what we see in social media, we've got to look at the facts, and we The last thing a prosecutor wants is to get in a double jeopardy situation where there's an acquittal and you're like, Oops, we shouldn't have charged this and we shouldn't have done that, but now we can't go back. And so they were very careful. My hat's off to all these lawyers in this case. I love a courtroom, and I'm too hyperactive to be a lawyer, but I'm right under the line.

But you're right there on the line with being a journalist and being able to bring it home. Well, it was a 15-year fight for Sue Markham's family, to try to bring this case to court and get justice. Landeras, as you said, was found guilty of second-degree murder. His sentencing has yet to happen. She'll be up sometime in the near future. What are you thinking?

Well, I think there are sentencing guidelines that the judge has to consider, but my understanding is that it's up to 30 years. If there's possibilities for parole, which I'm sure there will be, I doubt he's going to get them.

Yeah, he's going to go to prison for a very long time for this case.

That we can definitely count on, yes.

We are just scratching the surface on this story. When we come back, Pat has more details and a few warnings to share.

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Welcome back to 2020 The After Show. I am talking with my colleague, our contributor, Pat Lalama, who just always just is riveting in the way she tells us about these stories. Pat, you are. And Pat is breaking down the case of Sue Markham, sadly, a beloved university professor from Washington, DC, who was found murdered in her basement. And a case that went on for years. Let's talk about your theory, Pat. After all they had been through, and she began to realize that this wasn't great for her, why would she have let him back into the house, do you think?

For the same reason that she wrote in an email, I'm still as enamored with you today as I was when I first met you.

She wanted to work it out somehow.

She had not let go. She held on to some unfathomable hope that he was going to become a good person and be in her life.

And who hasn't let somebody back into their lives from time to time when you know it's not the right way to go, but you just... You hold on to some hope, right?

We all been there, done that in our lives. Yes, we have.

Well, Pat, one of the things that you have driven home in our conversation, and you do this all the time when you talk about these stories, which is what I think makes you so passionate about them, is sometimes there's something there for us to take away. There's a lesson for us to learn. And in this particular case, as sad as it was for Sue to lose her life, there are some lessons for, as you said, other women other people, red flag moments here. So what do you hope people will take away from this particular story?

Deborah, I am so glad you invited me on to this episode because I really, for women, take this to heart, and I still see it today, even with young women, after all the battles, we, older women, have fought for them. I want women to, when their gut tells them, I'm not being treated quite right, or there are too many questions about this person's behavior, Trust your gut and talk it over. Friends play a big role in this, too. Friends and family. I realize you can't get through to somebody who's... You can't always get through, but you've got to keep bringing it up when you see, why does your boyfriend never come around? Why does he ghost you often? Why are you writing him checks? Why does he disappear? There's so many things, and the number one is the gaslighting. I told you about this term- Making you feel like it's your fault. Oh, my God. Yes. I saw in Sue what I've seen in a lot of people I know. You go to your partner with a concern I wish you wouldn't do this. And by the end of the conversation, you're crying, and that partner has got complete control.

You've got to watch out. Why am I the one who started the conversation to correct what I see as a wrong? But Now I'm apologizing, and I'm crying. And that's what Sue did when at the end, after all the hell he had put her through, and she knows it, she's saying, I'm still trying to figure this out for us. Yeah. Okay?

Yeah. Friends and family, but Pat also making the person feel safe and able to maybe to fess up, because often shame is a part of this, as you said earlier. Absolutely. And they don't want to make people aware of what they've gone through. Yes.

And look at her. Growing up in my era, a lot of women stayed in bad situations because they didn't have the financial empowerment, but it was also psychological. But look at Sue. She had financial independence. And when the defense attorney said to the jury, She could have gotten out any time. They were raising the issue that they had to raise. But it is not that easy for someone who is this far gone. And there are a lot of women like this. Which is why- You cannot beat yourself up for it. You cannot beat yourself up for falling into this trap. It's not shameful. Go get help.

Right. Not blaming the victim. But that's why this episode, I think, is so not only intriguing, but also so important. Pat, you always give us a lot to think about. You always give us a lot to just be mesmerized by when you cover these stories for us. So thank you, as always, Pat.

Well, you bring out all the good stuff, Deborah. You're very good at bringing out the good stuff.

Well, not very hard with you, Pat. I really appreciate it. Thank you again for joining us, and thank you for being with us. Of course, you can catch 2020, the latest episodes on Friday night on ABC. And of course, you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney Plus or Hulu. Thank you so much for being with us, and we'll see you next time. It's The Paradise podcast.

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