Transcript of The After Show: Life on the Line

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Hi, everybody. I'm Deborah Roberts, and welcome back to 2020 The After Show, the program where we take you behind the scenes of some of our reporting and give you a look at how we put these programs together. And today we're talking about a story that I worked on, I reported on down in Florida. A 21-year-old mom has gone missing from her home. She left behind at the time her two two small sons, whom her family, of course, insisted she never would have left abandoned. It's a 2020 episode called Life on the Line, and it's available right here on your podcast feed and streaming on Hulu and Disney+. Producers Jeff Schneider and Denise Martinez Ramundo worked on this case with me, and I'm so excited to have Denise and Jeff here. Denise, good to see you. I think I'm going to start with you because you brought this story to me. It was something that you, I think, discovered and Obviously, it had been a story that had happened in Florida. As a mom, you're a mom. I am, too. And oftentimes, you and I have connected over these stories just because we're parents. And when it is something that involves a parent, it really grabs us right away.

Tell me about for you, when you first heard about this story, a 21-year-old mom going missing, and of course, tragically, turns out dead.

Her name turns out to be Denise, just like my name. We actually share the same birth year. So you hit close to home, also reaching out. Curious. I'm sharing the same name. And what was really interesting is that as a mom, she was leaving her two young sons behind, six months and two years old. I have young children. So to know that she had to be taken away from them and in her mind, to maybe try to protect themselves, take the harm away from them.

She was a young, stay-at-home mom, a very bright young woman, Denise Amber Lee. One of the things that we really, I thought, brought home for viewers in this case was 911 calls, how it all works, why that was so urgent. What were you thinking in terms of bringing this home to viewers?

We have a series of 911 calls that really bring this kidnapping to life, that we are experiencing and listening to it unfolding in real-time. So I think this is unlike any other story that we've seen, that we can see that progression. And I think it was really important to bring that to the viewer. So the audio is obviously really shocking to hear. But obviously, in order for that to bring it to life, I think definitely Jeff, with the video, really was able to capture that.

And for folks who may not have seen the episode, and I'm telling you, you're going to want to go see the episode. But those of you who did, you'll remember that Denise Amber Lee placed a 911 call from her captor's car. She was actually taken from her home, and she very cleverly was able to get his phone and to place a call to the police, just not obviously signaling that she was calling the police, but giving enough information there. It's almost like something out of a TV show. And Jeff, what about you and your approach to this particular story? You knew the area.

Yeah. And I'm also a dad with two kids. And immediately, when I read the story, when I learned about the story, I put myself in Nathan's shoes. Her husband. Yeah, her husband. I just really wanted to capture what he was going through and what he was feeling. These locations were all so very important, like where their house was. It was in the middle of nowhere. It was a back on a tucked-in street where it felt safe. That was really something that was important for me to try to get across with the visuals is just where everything took place, the relationship to each other and stuff It was like that. And then also the strength of this family, Sue, the mom, taking in the children in the middle of this nightmare, like you mentioned, having to go. She had to go get formula because Denise was still breastfeeding.

Yeah, there was something about that tender idea that she's still a breastfeeding mom and had to leave her children behind because she was kidnapped. And in the story, we learn a lot about the two of them, Denise and Nathan. They were very young. When they got married, they had these children pretty quickly. Nathan was a very devoted dad, working very hard. He comes home, and his wife's keys and her purse are there, but she's not to be found anywhere. He's the first person, actually, to call 911 in the story. So let's remind our listeners, and let's take a listen.

North Port Emergency? Yes. I'm at Latour Avenue. I just got home from work, and my wife, I can't find her. My kids were in the house, and I don't know where she is. I've looked every single place, and I don't know. How old are your kids, sir? My oldest is two, and my youngest is six months. You know what? I know. I don't know where mommy is. Her vehicle is in the driveway? Yes. Does she have any medical conditions? No. Her purse is here. I don't... Her cell phone is here. I don't... I don't know. I don't know. Okay, what is her name?

Denise.

That call is just so chilling because you can hear the desperation. You can also hear the panic in his voice. Jeff, you talked about being a dad, and of course, Denise, you're a parent, too. I think for all of us, as we were going back and looking at this story, and I had an opportunity to meet her two now older sons. Her father's a police officer, and we'll talk about that, and her parents. This was a hard one to report Denise. I mean, even your face now as we're watching and talking to you about it, I mean, this was a hard one, wasn't it?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, in that 911 call, you hear even the son asking, Where's mommy? My little one is starting to talk, almost getting close to the two-year-old age. And they realized, and just hearing the panic on his voice, the little young son asking for his mom, it was hard to report on it. We had covered this story back in 2008, but we didn't have her 911 call. Even though it's heartbreaking and hard stopping, but it really shows how brave she was. I think it was important for us to do this story, making our viewers listen to that 911 call to show the impact that her case has had on the 911 system going forward.

Yeah. And that became a theme for us, Jeff, in this story. We're going to examine 911 calls and operators, and we went actually to a 911 office there to find out how they work, because this case would eventually change a lot in Florida when it comes to 911 cases. We have to dig through a lot of video file reporting. And as Denise said, this is the first time we actually had an opportunity to broadcast this particular 911 call.

Yeah. Both me and Denise go through all the case files that we can get our hands on. We try to get everything We listen to everything. We make notes on it all. And we're listening to everything, and we're keeping all that in mind as we go out. And I think that makes us better in the field so that we can really know what to with how to film certain things, the locations and everything like that.

Yeah, especially when it's a case like this one that happened several years back, and then we try to see what we can do to bring something new to it, fresh eyes. Well, there's so much more to this story to report and to tell you all about how we put it all together. Denise Amber Lee and the case of the missing mom down in Florida. We're going to talk more about it in just a moment. We're going to take a break, so don't go anywhere. 911, what's your emergency?

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We are back now with Denise Martinez Ramundo and Jeff Schneider, producers on this story with me for 2020. They covered the Denise Amber Lee case, and it was driven by consequential 911 calls. I want to get into all of them, but we heard that call from Nathan a little earlier. Now, there was a call from Denise herself. I want to play for all of us in a clip from that. Do you know this guy that's with you?

No. You don't know him from anywhere? No, please. Oh, God, help me. What is the address to your end? Where are we going?

I got to go all around now to get to where you're going.

I'm going around where? Because it's dark. Can you see that's exactly where it is?

Four streets of all, five streets from your house.

I cleared you everywhere.

North Port L9.

Sarah Soda just had Denise A. Lee on the phone, advised that she was taken by an unknown subject.

That call was just so distressing. What were your thoughts about how much of it to play and whether even to play it?

We gave it a lot of thought to that. In our previous reporting, we had her dad and ourselves describing the call. I mean, after listening to the call, I think we felt it was important for us, for the bureau, to hear how brave she was and how she handled herself in that situation. It was really important in her 911 call that she's relaying critical information about the person who has her. He's saying, I don't know you, please take me back home. She says, Take me back home to my house in La Tour, trying to give dispatchers information about where her home is so she could identify her. They could identify, hopefully, him. And that was really critical because they will eventually use that information and they will convict him later on.

Yeah, it was so amazing to me. I mean, this is a 21-year-old woman. Her father was a police officer, so she had some smarts about, I guess, the law and maybe even just about trying to figure out a way to get herself out of this, but that she had the presence of mind, even in the middle fill up all that fear to throw out these little breadcrumbs to police. And also, too, of course, to try to bleed with this abductor. But then another call came through that actually helped identify who her actual killer was. Let's take a listen to that call.

I just got a call from my dad, and his cousin came over his house with a girl in the car, and she was tied up. He borrowed a shovel, a gas tank, and something else. What's the cousin driving? A green Camaro. What's the cousin's name? Mikey King. Put out a follow to FHP 2, please, for a dark green Camaro. Who's he saying is driving that Camaro? Michael King.

Oh, my gosh. I think for all of us, this This was not only upsetting, but maybe even infuriating when you think about this young woman is missing every second counts. This young girl calls because her father didn't call, and she gives police a little bit of information. And this is the first time we actually hear a name, Michael King, and that was critical, Jeff, right?

It was. And when we talked with the police and the detectives, they had said that Denise's call, when they got the 911 call from Denise, they started to trace it. And then they got this other call from that girl that we just heard, and they had a name, and then they eventually got the name back from the phone that they were tracing from Denise's 911 call, and it matched up, and both was Michael King. So they knew they had their guy. And it was just you talk about the research that we were doing when we first started this, we tried to dig into who was this guy, who is Michael King, what's his name?

Yeah, what was his connection to Denise Amber Lee, which was nothing.

Which was nothing. And we couldn't find any criminal background with him. And so that randomness just made this even more chilling.

Yeah, Denise, I think that's what got me the randomness, because we do so many of these stories, and oftentimes, we see it coming, right? It's either the spouse or a relative or some disgruntled employee or worker with someone. But in this case, it's just one of those things, those random crimes that all of us fear.

That's what makes it, in this case, really, really scary, because it's somebody random, somebody that had no connection whatsoever to her, and somebody who turned out to be a father. He had a young son, and his most recent girlfriend had said that she was shocked as everybody else to hear that it was him, and that she would never have imagined that he would be capable to do something like this.

Yeah. As I said, the 911 calls played such a role. Denise makes a call. This young makes a call. And then there's another call that comes in that could have changed everything. A woman named Jane Kowalski, who you had me meet Denise, and I drove along with her so she could point out to me where she was driving. She happened to be in town on her way to go visit a relative, and she saw a car with someone banging on the back window in the car. And she said she was on the phone with her sister, and she could hear this screaming. It was almost like a kid's voice. She couldn't make it out. And she knew something was wrong. She could see that this guy was driving, and this person was banging very, very frantically. Let's take a listen to this one.

They kept banging on the window and screaming, and not a happy scream like, Get me out of here, scream. He just turned on too little, but I don't know if I can catch up. There's a bunch of traffic and I can't get over. Oh, boy.

You can't get more specific than that. This woman is giving all this detail in real-time. She's telling them where she is. I mean, I think all of our jaws just dropped. Denise, let's talk about how you found Jane. You brought her to Florida. I got a chance to get in the car. Jeff, you were shooting to talk to her about how this all played out for her. And she was a very interesting woman, very strong woman who felt very strongly about trying to do the right thing. She even wanted to follow the car, but they lost her after a while. She was like, trying to do her part as a citizen.

Yeah. I mean, it's always really important for us to be able to go back and find those people that are so key to the story. I mean, obviously, Jane saw something that in her mind looked like a kidnapping. I think it was really important to have you write with her so she can really point, I'm in this lane, he's crossing over. I think to be able to really capture that. And I and understand it from herself. You saw she even showed you how loud the banging on the window was. It was quite something that she really knew somebody was in trouble. I think it's really, unfortunately, And her call comes to the dispatch center, where actually the agency where Denise's father works for. So it was people there that obviously really care about Denise.

And of course, what was so upsetting was that we learned that there was a snafu in the 911 call center, which just complicated the story all the more. Ultimately, sadly, very sadly, in this case, Denise's body was found. Well, we talked about Denise's sons who are now young men, almost grown men, and We had a chance to meet them and to talk with them. They're very, very amazing young men. We're going to share some extended moments for my interview with them when we come back. So stay with us.

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It's a story that he hasn't forgotten either.

No. After this case, he wanted to figure out what they could do better, how they could improve, how they could not have this happen again. He spearheaded this real-time intelligence center. And when we went and talked with him and sat him down to interview him, he took us into the intelligence center, and we just felt like this is where we need to talk to him.

Well, let's take a listen to what told us. What's behind me here is our real-time intelligence center. There's over 150 pieces of intelligent equipment that's placed throughout our city.

I can tell you right now, if we were able to take all of this behind me and go back in time and implement it into 2008, I strongly believe in my heart that we would have had Denise Amberly.

I also had an opportunity, which was pretty amazing, was to talk to her sons, Adam and Noah. One of them had just graduated from high school. The other one is a chef. And they were really pretty amazing to talk to Denise.

Yeah. I mean, one thing when I started working on the story, I mean, I realized the six month old and the two year old are probably teenagers now. I want to hear from them. I want to know what life has been for them. Obviously, their mom was taken away from them when they were so young. And we'll talk about how their dad that has gone on to speak about her mom's story. But I wanted to hear from them, and I think it was very moving, and I think they were very eloquent. They say themselves, they say, You usually don't get to hear about the kids, the impact that it has on them. I think that was really moving to hear what they have to say.

Adam and Noah were talking to us for the first time publicly about this case, and we have a bonus clip from our interview. So let's take a When you think about the two of you now, having grown up, you had each other. Did that create a special bond between the two of you?

Yeah. Even as we take our separate paths in life, that keeps us bonded forever. Knowing that he was going through the same thing definitely helped me.

There's a monument in the park that is basically a tribute to your mom. Do you spend any time there?

I still make an effort to visit and to say my peace, almost like she's there. If I don't go there, I go to the cemetery.

So you feel some connection to her?

I used to wear a cross on one of my necklaces. I left it there with her.

At the cemetery?

Just a part of me with her because I'll always have a part of her with me. I do my best to carry her with me everywhere I go.

Do you feel on some level that you know her, even though you don't remember her?

All these stories and everything I hear, she's still been a perfect mother. Despite her not being here. I always try to dedicate a part of my success to her. Without her, what would I be?

I have to tell you, this was very hard for me sitting across from these two young men. I mean, you could hear Noah weeping there and just, oh my, even just listening to it again now, powerful words from these two. And it was interesting to hear them talk about visiting her and the jewelry. And of course, having talked to Denise's husband, who now has been remarried, Nathan, but who still so clearly carries a lot of pain having lost Denise. Nathan, though, one of the things that I just thought was so remarkable, Denise, was Nathan had given Denise a ring when they first started dating. Not a very expensive ring, but it was like a little heart. It was for Valentine's Day. She was wearing that ring when she was abducted. And smartly, she left the ring behind in the car to give police a clue. And he actually got that ring back not long before we did this interview. And Denise, that was really pretty remarkable.

Yeah, when I reached out to him about doing the story, he had mentioned to me that just a few months ago, he had gotten that ring back. Michael King's appeals had all been exhausted, so he was able to get this piece of jewelry back, which, again, it was so special. He said that it wasn't expensive it, but it became one of her priceless possessions. And she left it in that car because she knew that Nathan would be able to identify it. So getting it back was very special for him.

Yeah. And just a remarkable man himself, Jeff. I mean, he has dedicated his life now to speaking out about 911 and how it laws changed in Florida and other parts of the country, where they've strengthened the protocol for 911 calls.

I actually attended one of the events where Nathan was telling Denise's story to a bunch of people that work in the 911 field. And I talked with the people after the people that were attending. And her story, him telling her story, really made a difference, really impacted them. It also impacted me. I'm not going to forget this. I think that it's just really amazing. Again, I think I said the strength of this family was so important, and just the way that they've turned their tragedy into action is just remarkable.

Yeah. Pain into purpose, as we see in so many of these episodes. Well, guys, you brought it home in such a remarkable way, in such a powerful way. Denise and Jeff, so well done on the piece. And thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you, Deborah. Thanks, Deborah. I'm going to see you soon, I'm sure. What man would let this happen to his family?

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