Transcript of Broken Vows (Rebroadcast)

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My name is Pamela Smart. I have been portrayed as Black Widow, Ice Princess, a killer, and none of those things could be further from the truth. And so just to be clear, did you mastermind the murder against your husband? Absolutely not. No, I did not.

That was then. This is now. And this is new, just this summer. I found myself responsible for something I desperately didn't want to be responsible for.

This story had it all. A beautiful young woman, a seductress of a young teenage boy. And perhaps most importantly, murder. Pam, did you have anything to do with your husband's murder? People were asking why this happened and why Pam Smart could lure a young man into killing for her.

I never would have done it if Pam didn't tell me to. She was the first girl I ever loved.

I pulled the trigger. God forgive me.

Your trial defined media frenzy. This was the first trial to be broadcast live from start to finish. Before O.J., before the Menendez brothers. It was reality TV before there was reality TV. So when will it happen?

It gets made into a movie, To Die For, which starred Joaquin Phoenix and Nicole Kidman. Did you get the gun? No. A lot of people felt like they knew everything about me because they saw the movie. The boys who actually committed the murder are already free.

How is it fair that someone who pulled the trigger is home and somebody else remains in prison? What do you think is your best hope for getting out? So will she do it now after everything else has failed? For me, that was really hard.

We're gonna sit here if that's okay. I know this is not your first rodeo. No, it's not. It was such a notorious crime that I was really intrigued when she agreed to a jailhouse interview. She had been maintaining her innocence for 3 decades.

For speeding? Sí. We all wondered what it would be like to meet this woman, a woman that a jury was convinced had masterminded her husband's murder. It's been, you know, almost 3 decades, and it hurts. You talked about all that you've lost, including the potential to be a mom.

Yeah, and that makes me sad, 'cause I love children. I wanted to be a mother, and now, you know, I've lost all my years. It seems like the whole world's passing by, and— You know, I'm still here.

Pamela was really the golden girl of true crime in the '90s. It was a story we had never really heard before. In the '90s, she was right up there with Tonya and Amy Fisher. This was the era of the bad girl, for sure. And right around this time is when you've got Madonna doing "Erotica" and doing the sex textbook and the idea that women are not the victims of sexual relationships, but they can put notches in the bedpost same as men can.

The reasons why the crime had taken place, the motivations, the passions that resulted in what happened, seem to fascinate people. It all starts in Miami, Florida. Mama said don't worry about the weather, about the weather. My name is Diane Diamond. I am a veteran journalist reporter, and I've been covering the Pamela Smart case since the mid-'90s.

Pamela is one of 3 children. She has a sister and a brother.

Her mother, a homemaker who took homemaking very seriously.

She was always there, and when we had a problem, we didn't have to wait till she came home from work because she was she was home.

My husband was a pilot. Pam loved being with Dad. She's very close to him. She was very happy. She was a sweet child.

She had a lot of friends. Kind of happy-go-lucky. I think so, yes. Then her family moved to New Hampshire.

This is the American dream. Low crime rate. Beautiful parks, greenery, people are friendly.

Then came time for college.

Pam Smart decides to return to Florida, and she enrolls at FSU. When I went to college, I worked 3 jobs 52 hours a week and graduated from college a year early. Pamela Smart was an overachiever. She received a degree in communication arts, and her goal was to be a television news reporter. My aspiration was to be a journalist and to be in the media.

She wanted to be another Barbara Walters. Didn't we all? Don't touch that dial. You're listening to WBFS Tallahassee, 89.7 FM. She was a DJ on the college radio station, and she hosted not one but two different radio shows.

I did the rock show at night. She loved Van Halen. Boy, yeah, Joe, Joe! She loved Mötley Crüe. She's out of her top gear!

Her moniker was the Maiden of Metal.

I didn't go to college and go out partying. I worked all the time. So you skipped adolescence? I kind of skipped relationships. I had no boyfriend in college until I met my husband, and that was it.

In 1994, everybody wanted to hear from Pamela Smart. Okay. She gave her first first interview to my colleague Diane Sawyer. Well, no beepers are going to go off. Yeah, we're rolling.

All right. How did you meet Greg Smart? I met Greg when I came home for Christmas during a break one year. Originally, I wasn't attracted to him, but I then became attracted to him. What about him?

He was very outgoing and always smiling. He seemed fun to be around. He was a rocker. The long hair, the attitude. She loved him.

She said, "You know, Mom, he's the one." We liked him too.

Greg and Pam Smart bonded over Van Halen songs like "You Really Got Me." Girl, you really got me down. "Hot for Teacher." I got it bad, so bad. I'm hot for teacher. Greg seemed very glamorous to her. He had this magnificent head of hair.

That's the guy Pam told me she fell in love with. So what does he do?

He leaves town and moves to Florida to be with Pam. There's something very innocent and very normal and very sweet about it. They fell in love. They dated for a while. He came down to Florida to be with her.

He wasn't interested in going to college. He was just interested in being with Pam. It's a relationship that heats up lightning fast. But fizzles out almost as quickly.

You would never know that in less than one year, Greg Smart would be murdered.

Welcome for the very first time, Mr. and Mrs. Greg Smart.

Greg and Pam got married on May 7th, 1989.

We gave them a very beautiful wedding. We look forward to having grandchildren.

Pam Smart was decked out like Princess Diana, the big poofy white wedding dress. He was handsome in a steel gray tuxedo. When you look at the photographs and the video of that wedding, I don't know that I've seen a happier couple.

I was only 21 years old when I got married. I was very much in love with my husband.

I thought that Greg and I would have a fulfilling future, that we would have a family and children.

Do you still feel married to your husband? I do. And, you know, it's weird that you would ask me that, 'cause I was just filling out an application for something for in here yesterday, And it says, "Are you married?" And I put yes, you know, and date of marriage, because I am still married. I'm widowed, but I'm still married.

The couple moved back to New Hampshire. They move into a very well-to-do neighborhood in a beautiful condominium.

Derry, New Hampshire's nickname is the Space Town. It's named because it was the home of Alan Shepard, the astronaut. The poet Robert Frost comes from there. Something we were withholding made us weak. Pamela got a job with the public school system, and she became the media liaison among about a dozen public schools.

She's introducing students into television. She was able to write press releases. She was able to create content. This job by no means was what her career ambition was, but it was a stepping stone. I had a very good job.

I made a lot of money for myself. I was 22 years old. I had a 40-something-year-old secretary. I had a job where I had 4 weeks paid vacation, met full medical, dental, all of that. I was my own boss.

I really made my own money. Greg sort of settled down a little bit. He cut off his long hair. He went into the respectable insurance business with his father. So years later, when Pam Smart's case is It's so infamous there are TV movies being made about it.

There's a scene in Murder in New Hampshire where Greg's haircut is made out to be the first sign of trouble. I remember exactly filming that scene on the doorstep when Greg comes home. Pam looks at him and hardly recognizes him. He's shorn, he's cut everything off. And instead of being pleased, she's absolutely horrified.

"Your hair, what happened to your hair?" No, the barber's still sweeping it up even as we speak. He's gotten a haircut because he's gotten a job. Horrified, she goes, "You cut your hair?" And he says, "Ma'am, I may look like Donald Trump, but I still feel like Jon Bon Jovi." She may have dated a rocker, but she married an insurance agent. Real life sets in. He became an insurance salesman.

She got a good job. Pretty soon, it was a routine. It seemed that this couple had everything going for them— good jobs, a nice rented home, good furniture. They even had a little dog. So on the surface, it looks great.

It's just not going to turn out that way. Greg was working a lot, and he would work at night, go to people's homes, pitch insurance policies. And Pam was left alone. When she first met her husband, He was kind of a rocker rebel, which is why she was drawn to him. And then after marriage, segued into this very traditional role.

Her mother later told me that during this period, it seemed like Pam finally stopped focusing on just work and became more social, but a little immaturely social. She started to hang around with the high school students when she went to work every every day. Greg's working all the time. Pamela's hanging out with teenagers. This marriage is getting bumpy.

They were very young, which probably helped their marriage to deteriorate. Clearly there was a dynamic that wasn't working. In her first year of marriage, her husband had come home and talked to her about having an affair, and I think it crushed her deeply. I was very much in love with my husband from the time he was my boyfriend through when he was my husband, and He, um, had an affair. And when that happened, I was devastated.

I thought there was something wrong with me. I thought that I wasn't good enough. So she was feeling like her husband had betrayed her. In that exclusive interview with Diane Sawyer, Pam Smart remembers the night her husband didn't come home from work. One night, I went to bed, and I was expecting him to come home.

And when I woke the next morning, he wasn't there. He was out with a friend of his, and he had been drinking, so he decided to stay at his house. And it turns out that that wasn't what happened. What did happen? He had met someone, and he had stayed with her the night.

Was he sorry? Was it a fight? What happened? I was very angry, and I was very hurt. Did it change the marriage?

Well, I believe it made me less trustworthy. It had an effect on my self-esteem. I had thought originally that it was just, you know, he and I, and now I realized that someone could come between that, and I was scared of that. When he cheated on her, it obviously broke her heart and changed her, changed the marriage. That's the turning point.

In this story, his affair. Pam had no idea that a chance encounter was about to change her world forever. I fell in love with her.

On May 1st, 1990, Pamela is at a school board meeting. She gets home about 10 o'clock. 3 o'clock. She goes to the front door, and she notices that the light is out. This is odd.

And she opens the front door, and in the vestibule is her husband. She had arrived at her home and began screaming that there was something wrong with her husband. She starts banging on doors. Somebody call 911. Hurry, hurry.

My husband, my husband. Terry, emergency. Yes, emergency in 4E. Mr. Summerville Condominium. There's someone passed out.

I don't know, a girl is hysterical in here. She just ran over her husband. He's passed out. I was working as an investigative reporter in New Hampshire, and the scanner radio goes off, and we understand that a young man has been murdered inside his condominium. The telephone calls that came to the Derry Police Department all came from neighbors who heard her screaming and yelling.

You know why he's passed out there, ma'am? I'm on the way. Do you know why he's passed out? No, we don't know. Pamela is outside.

She's sobbing. She wants to know what's going on. Is there a burglar in the house? Is Greg okay? Is he breathing?

What's happening? Pam Smart found his body. He was in the entranceway to his condominium. He was sprawled out on the ground. The first thing that we noticed was the body of the victim, Gregory Smart.

There appeared to be a blue towel wrapped around his head. He's got a bullet wound in the back of his head. This is— this looks like a mob hit. This is an execution. Right away, police had no idea who could be responsible.

In most cases, pretty quickly, the murders make sense. Somebody's involved in gangs or drugs, or there's a history of, of domestic dispute in their lives. In this case, here's this young man At the beginning of his life and career in insurance, he's not married a year yet to a lovely young woman, and he's dead. The police were groping for leads at the time. He had apparently expired, they determined almost immediately.

Pam called the house, and she was hysterical. And she screamed into the phone, Mom, come quick. Greg's dead. And inside, I was trembling, and I thought, Well, maybe there's been an accident.

People in that house that night told me that she was a wreck. She was an inconsolable mess. She did seem extremely shaken at the time, extremely emotionally distraught. She was soaking wet, her clothing, from sobbing. We were all a mess, saying, how Why is it true?

In that first interview with Diane Sawyer, Pam talks about the tragic night. What happened to Greg is the most horrible thing I've ever gone through in my life, and I, I'm still haunted every day by memories of what must have happened to him inside our house before he was killed. And although I wasn't there I feel that because of that, I'll never know how Greg was feeling at the time. I keep thinking of how afraid he must have been and how senseless this whole tragedy was. A lot of times I still can't even believe that he's gone.

Greg Smart still has on the clothes from work. It looks like Greg must have walked into the middle of a botched screwed-up burglary. We noticed that several things were moved. The stereo system had been ransacked. CDs were laying on the floor.

Pillowcases had been ripped open. The stuffing had been removed. We found that the upstairs as well had been ransacked. The dressers had been gone through completely. However, police find that Greg still has his wallet.

He still has a gold wedding band on his hand. Pamela reported nothing much was missing except a few little pieces of her jewelry. This is not a usual burglary. Usually, burglars in this region don't carry firearms or guns. They're not planning on any kind of confrontation at all.

There was no forced entry at the front door or the back door. No signs, no disturbances of someone breaking in. Something just doesn't seem right here. Kitchen chef's knife is missing. Stuck into the ground.

They found a marijuana cigarette, a reefer, in his car. So they think, well, maybe there's drugs involved. Dead end. The next lead is that Greg might have had a gambling problem. They search phone records, and they find that he had been calling a gambling service to go to Atlantic City.

Maybe he owed somebody money. Again, dead end. Nothing there. So every single lead that we got, all of them led to dead ends. At that point, they really are searching and asking the public's help because they frankly don't have a break and they need one.

A dead body killed execution style, that is a stunner for Derry, New Hampshire. And then a few days after Greg Smart's murder, something strange happens at his wake. A group of unidentified teenage boys show up, and everyone's thinking, who are those guys and what's their connection to Greg? So after weeks of investigating by the police and nothing is happening, nothing is popping, no new information, suddenly out of the blue, a man walks into the police station with a .38 caliber revolver, and he says, this is my gun, and I think it was used in the Gregory Smart murder case.

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Part of me is missing, and that's Greg. It's gone forever, and he'll never be back. I remember it was a rather chilly day. It's always kind of very cool in New England, but this day seemed colder. You have all these young people and they're all crying.

I didn't want to be covering this funeral. Uh, I didn't want to be anywhere near it. Throughout the day I kept seeing he had this big, vibrant, beautiful smile. We can't sleep. I don't want to eat.

I don't feel there's much left in my life. Pamela Smart is struggling, it seemed to me, to even make it down the walkway way. She was crying so hard. It was a horrifically emotional moment. There is footage of me coming out of the funeral crying so bad that my father's holding me on one side and my sister's holding me on the other.

And I did lose my husband that I did marry, and he did love me, and I loved him. There's no answers, and the police can't give them any answers. And that made their grieving that much more difficult. He didn't deserve this. All I want is the people who did this sent to jail forever.

All of these people are just shredded, just wracked with emotion over this horrendous thing.

Never forget, this is just a few days after Greg's murder, and my news director goes, I guess you'll be interviewing Pamela Smart today, right? We'll have a story with you and her. And I'm like, yeah, that's gonna happen. Uh, he's just joking with me. And honest to God, like 3 minutes later, over the loudspeaker, I hear, Bill Spencer, you have a phone call.

It's Pamela Smart. Pam gave her first media interview to a local television reporter 6 days after Greg was murdered. She said she wanted to talk to me about the kind of guy that Greg was. She wanted people to know the type of person he really was. At that time, she appears perfectly together.

She has on a prim little outfit. Her makeup is perfect. I feel like in a whole condominium complex like ours, somebody must have seen or heard something. Everybody's saying they didn't hear or see anything, and I keep thinking that I'll see him, you know, walk in. But every day and every second that passes, I realize that that won't happen.

And yesterday I went out to the cemetery, and that's kind of, you know, when it really hit me that he won't ever come back.

She does appear introspective. She does appear to miss her husband. You know, it's awful to just think about what happened in there. You know, the only comfort I have is that, you know, it just seems to have been a situation where Greg didn't know what was happening, and he just never knew, you know. And it was really quick.

We usually don't like to bring animals or get dogs in your interview shot, but, um, Pam invited Halen to come over, this little fuzzy dog. And, um, we did the whole interview with Halen sitting right there next to us. She named her dog Halen because she was a Van Halen maniac. Sometimes I ask myself, I can't figure out where the strength is coming from, but it seems like it's coming from inside. Maybe, you know, maybe it's a part of Greg that's helping me go on with everything.

The interview kind of comes and goes with no fuss, no new witnesses coming forward, until the big break for police comes on June 10th, 1990. About 6 weeks after the murder, out of the blue, a grown man walks into the police station. But it's not the Derry police station, it's the Seabrook police station. It's about 40 miles away where in walks this man. He's carrying a handgun in his hand and he says, "This is my gun and I think it was used in the Gregory Smart murder case." They immediately call the investigators in And this would turn out to be the major break in the story.

And he proceeds to tell the investigators that he had this gun put away in his house, and when he went to retrieve it, it looked like it had been freshly cleaned, and he knew he had not cleaned it. So how did this happen? The man tells police that his son's friend, a teenager by the name of Ralph Welch, told him that the gun may have been used to kill Greg Smart. Police immediately get the gun. They do a ballistics comparison.

The two bullets match up. The tests show that that gun is the weapon that killed Greg Smart. It is probably the most important physical piece of evidence they're going to find. This is a big break. For the police.

That very same day, June 10th, 1990, the police haul in that teenager, Ralph Welch, for a videotaped interview. Okay, it's June 10th and it's 15:24 hours by my watch. I'm Detective Barry Cherowitz, and with me is Ralph Welch. So Ralph Welch tells Detective Barry Cherowitz about a secret conversation he had with the son of the man who turned in that .38 caliber revolver. So then he told me the story how it happened, who was there.

So police get Ralph Welch talking, and remember, he's a teenager talking to cops, and he spills it all. He told you the story about what? About how? What? He told me how they did it.

How they did what? Killed Greg Smart. Ralph Welch tells police about learning of 3 teenage boys who went to Greg Smart's house that night with the intent to murder him. These are the 3 boys that Welch names in that interview: Billy Flynn, Pete Randall, and Vance, aka J.R. Latimer. It's especially startling because they're just high school kids.

Latimer supposedly waited in the getaway car. So I went there and they broke into the place and they set it up to make it look like a burglary.

And I guess the guy tried to run or something, and they grabbed him. They threw his dog in the cellar. Pete said he held the guy's head while Bill shot him. The juveniles that were involved in the murder, beginning with Billy Flynn, all of them had specific problems in their lives or with the police, too. The Seabrook police, they were familiar with these— the kids involved already.

So Peter was the one that shot him? No. Pete said he held his head. Mm-hmm. Did he say how he held his head?

No, he just said he held it. Bill pulled the trigger. But why? What was the alleged motive? Welch seemed to know that too.

Did they tell you anything else about it? This was— begin some insurance money or something. This is just what they said from Pam, like $500 or something. And yeah, $500. $1,500.

Is that what Pam was paying them, or— that's what they said she was gonna pay him. And you're talking about Pam? Who's Pam? The guy's wife. Okay.

Pam Smart.

Ralph Welch is the first one who mentions Pam Smart's name. Did Pam pay him anything else? I just said something about insurance money or something. He mentioned like $500 apiece. This videotaped interview with Ralph Welch blows the lid off the case.

As police begin to dig, a clue may lie in, of all places, an amateur orange juice commercial that Pam helped some of the high school students produce. Since the beginning Time, man has enjoyed the taste of pure and natural Florida orange juice.

The police have finally got a direction in which to take this investigation.

This was begin some insurance money or something and pay him like $500. This explosive videotaped interview gives police a clear motive and implicates Pamela Smart in her husband's murder. Yet it comes as no surprise to police who already think that Pam has been acting bizarrely from the moment they started talking to her. We met with her in an interview room and she began immediately to tell us when she opened up the door, she saw that this must have been a burglary because there were speakers off the stand. It seemed kind of strange that she had keyed in on speakers missing from a stand.

It seemed at the time that her focus should have been on her husband who was laying there. Police noticed that Pam didn't seem to be very emotional when they finally got a chance to interview her just hours after her husband had been murdered. You weren't emotive enough. For people's taste. Yes.

What do you make of all that? Well, I wasn't very emotional. I think I was in shock, you know. You were the Ice Princess, right? And I think that people's perception is interesting because, like, I was watching something where it was JFK's funeral and Jackie Kennedy Onassis was standing there and she never shed a tear, and everyone was like, she's so stoic.

You know, nobody said she was an ice princess. There was no proof that Pamela Smart had anything to do with this, but her actions really did make a lot of people, including investigators, step back and say, wait a minute, does she have something to do with this?

My law enforcement friends told me that after I interviewed Pam Smart, that she became even more of a prominent suspect in their eyes because of what she said in that interview. And they said specifically she talked about things that she couldn't have known about. It just seems to have been a situation where Greg didn't know what was happening. She knew critical factors about what that crime scene looked like. How could she talk about what this apartment looked like when she wasn't allowed in there?

And I expected that she would be breaking down, and yet that emotion never came. Sometimes I ask myself, I can't figure out where the strength is coming from. But the weirdest part of the interview was we were talking about Greg, and she said something to the effect of, if you think about it, this couldn't have happened at a better time. You know, there's no better time in his life for this to happen. And I said, what?

Like, this couldn't have happened at a better time because because if you think about it, had we been married for 20 years, I would have loved him that much more. I couldn't wrap my mind around that. When the murder first happened, you brought the media into your home and gave interviews. Well, no, I talked to one person, Phil Spencer, and he was hounding every day, calling us, saying that he was running with the story that Greg owed gambling debts in Atlantic City and he owed money to the mafia. And they were saying, are you going to give us a comment?

Because if you're not going to give us a comment, we're running with this story. And it was like, wait a minute, my husband's not even buried. Like, what do you mean you're running with the story? Because we went to Atlantic City a lot, but he didn't owe anybody any money and he wasn't killed because of that. I was pressured basically to try to defend him, so I did.

I wouldn't say I pressured Pamela Smart into doing that interview at all. That call came to me. I didn't make the call to her that morning. She called me. Pam has an answer for everything the police called suspicious.

So who do you believe?

The police definitely don't believe Pam Smart. There's a whole lot of smoke but no fire yet. They have the videotaped interview from a high school kid who said that she offered $500 for murder. They find her interview peculiar, but none of this adds up to murder until they make a stunning connection. So these boys, it turns out, are students at the same school where Pam Smart works.

Not only do these kids go to Winnacunnet High School where Pamela Smart works, she's close to them because she's working on a school project with them. Now there's a connection. There's a connection between the gun, the 3 boys, and Pamela Smart.

Pam meets Billy Flynn through this Project Esteem that she is running at Winnacunnet High School, where she talks to teenagers about their troubles and tries to help them with their issues. There's a gigantic dichotomy between Derry, New Hampshire where Pamela Smart lives, and Seabrook, where Billy Flynn and these boys lived. Seabrook is a gritty, working-class area. And in comes Pamela Smart, and she must have seemed like a fairy princess. So Billy Flynn is 16 years old.

He's attending Winnacunnet High School. He plays guitar. He wants to be a rock musician. There's nothing imposing about this guy. He's a skinny, guitar-playing teenager.

I met Bill, who was kind of making me feel like I was the greatest thing on the earth. He was charming. He was. And I guess at that point I was so low that I needed that boost. You were vulnerable.

Yeah, I was.

Pam learned about a contest for high school kids in which they made a commercial about orange juice. So she got the kids together and said, hey, you can win a trip to Disneyland if you want to make this commercial.

Pam already knows Billy because She's in this project, Self-Esteem, with him, and she asked him to be the cameraman.

This put Pam and Billy in very close proximity. She directed it. He wrote the music for the commercial. We still need energy and vitamin C to keep in shape and stay healthy. My friends and I start out the day the Florida Orange Juice nutritional way.

I meet Pam Smart. And she's beautiful. She's intelligent. You know, she's an adult. And, um, she likes me.

As the police begin to dig, they can't help but wonder about the strange hold that Pamela Smart has on these teenage boys, especially the long-haired kid, Billy Flynn. The cops soon discover that Pamela Smart has been having an ongoing illicit affair with her teenage student, Billy Flynn. But another student from that very same high school is about to betray Pam with a secret recording. I'm afraid one day you're gonna come in here, you're gonna be fired by the police, and I'm gonna be busted.

Black Widow jailed for squalid murder. It seems like the whole world's passing by and, you know, I'm still here. They have a 22-year-old woman who's having an affair with a 16-year-old boy, and that boy is tied to the murder weapon. This young boy who was having an affair with her believes that she has told him that the only way we can be together is if you kill my husband. Well, act like I just used him, went lurking through the school looking for somebody to manipulate, and it was just really wasn't even like that.

Decades of denials, but now, new just this summer, a last-ditch effort to change the narrative. It really boils down to this: Pam Smart is asking for the opportunity, the chance to express remorse and to discuss her transformation over 34 years from a 22-year-old to a thoughtful, accomplished, mature 56-year-old woman A lot of people felt like they knew everything about me because they saw the movie. Did you get the gun? No. I had to acknowledge for the first time, in my own mind, in my own heart, how responsible I was, because I had deflected blame all the time.

It makes the headlines when 3 teens are arrested in the murder of Greg Smart. Billy Flynn, Vance Ladame, and Pete Randall. The police have now identified the murder weapon, and they trace it back to those 3 boys. This is what enabled them basically to get these arrest warrants. There is a fourth suspect.

Raymond Fowler was in the getaway car. Fowler ended up being charged. But other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time, he seemingly did not have much to do with the murder itself. Remember, police had been told that these boys were mere pawns and that Pam Smart had put them all up to it. But what was the motive?

Why would they kill Smart? I'm gonna go straight to Pam's condominium and get her reaction. I'm totally devastated by this. I, I can't comment. I was boggled by her reaction.

Wait a minute, they've solved your husband's murder and you're, you're distraught? I thought, oh my God, they have the wrong person. You thought Billy was innocent? I, I thought there was no way.

These 3 teenagers are in custody, but they are not talking to the police. Normally, you get 3 teens that are arrested for something this serious, one or all of them are gonna sing. They're gonna tell exactly what happened because they're teenagers. And then, out of the blue, a break in the case. Police actually get an anonymous phone call.

Detective Pelletier. It was a young man killed a couple weeks ago. Right. In his home. From what I have heard, the wife had planned it.

She said the woman had planned it and there was someone that knows all about this and her name is Cecilia Pierce. Cecilia Pierce is a teenager who goes to Winnacut High School. She is the intern of Pamela Smart. Smart. They had worked together on that O.J.

Video. We still need energy and vitamin C to keep in shape and stay healthy. Police interviewed Cecilia, and that recording appeared in a documentary for Discovery ID called Pamela Smart: An American Murder Mystery. What kind of a relationship do you have with Pam? Close.

She was kind of like a big sister. The revelations she makes are stunning. They were friends and then they were having an affair. How did you find out about the affair? Kim told me that she was in love with Bill, and I didn't say anything in the text because I worked in on it.

Bill Flynn was a juvenile, just 16 years old. Cecilia Cecilia tells police that one night she, Billy Flynn, and Pam Smart are watching a movie. 9 and a half weeks.

During the movie, Pam Smart and Billy Flynn go upstairs. Cecilia follows and actually walks in on the two having sex. This is a bombshell. Imagine what the police are thinking at this point. A 22-year-old woman who's having an affair with a 16-year-old boy, and that boy is tied to the murder weapon that was used to kill the woman's husband.

These are big pieces of a puzzle they're putting together here.

You were technically an adult and he was underage. Absolutely. That relationship seems predatory. It was totally wrong. It was actually very difficult because I had feelings for my husband.

I loved him, and I also had developed feelings for Bill. And I knew that I couldn't continue like this. It wasn't, you know, going to work like this forever. It was only a short relationship. You've had several bombshells in this case, but another one is about to explode.

Cecilia reveals that she has heard the whole story, the conversations between Billy Flynn and Pam, and that she has heard that Pam wanted to get rid of Greg. According to Cecilia Pierce, Pamela Smart planned the entire murder. She's the mastermind.

We're going to conduct an audio surveillance of one Pamela Smart. Using a confidential informant. They decide to ask Cecilia to get wired up, wear a taping device under her clothes, and she goes to visit Pam at her office. The trap is set. Will Pam fall in?

Cecilia tells Pam that the cops have called her in for questioning about the murder. Pretty much Yeah, they've established that, yeah, you had Blake killed. Why though? Like, you know— Because they can't think of any other reason why Bill and them would do it. Yeah, but even if I asked somebody to kill somebody, you have to be fucking deranged to say, "Okay, I will." You know what I mean?

Whether someone asks you to or not. As far as I can see it, Bill did it because he loved you. She doesn't break into tears, she doesn't deny it, nothing. That's very telling. Let me tell you how out of whack I was, okay?

The day before this, I had a lawyer, and he calls me up and he says, whatever you do, don't talk to her because she's coming in and she's going to be wired. That's an astonishing admission. She says her lawyer warned her Cecilia is dangerous, she could be wearing a wire if you talk to her, and yet she still does. I'm afraid one day you're going to come You're gonna be wired by the police. You're not gonna be busted.

Give me some signal that if you have to ever come down to me and you're wired, that you're gonna get booked. Why would you need that if in fact you did have nothing to do with it and you weren't part of all of this? Now remember, Cecilia acknowledges that she knew in advance about the murder, and that's when Pam issues what seems like an ominous warning. I'm the sick lion, you know. Well, you know, I'm just telling you, if you tell the truth, you're going to be in a sense of murder, right?

Now, you know you're going to be on the witness stand, and I'm just going to put you on the rack, and I'm going to say, do you know anything else? Did Pam do this? No. If you tell the truth, you are probably going to be arrested. Pam is really concerned about Cecilia now, so she's telling Cecilia to basically lied.

And if you're not arrested, you're gonna have to go and you're gonna have to send Bill, you're gonna have to send J.R., and you're gonna have to send me to the fucking slammer for the rest of our entire life. And unfortunately, that's the situation you're in. Sounds like you're admitting to something. My great brilliant idea that I had was that I was going to go in and have these conversations with her to make her feel like more comfortable so she tell me whatever she was going to tell me. All I wanted to know was, did this guy really kill my husband?

Because I so— like, more than anything, I wanted this not to be true because I felt responsible. Ultimately, the wire that Cecilia Pierce wore became the reason the police were able to go and arrest Pamela Smart. The good news is we've got the person. The bad news is it's you. You're under arrest.

Hey moms, looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting? Join me, Sabrina Kohlberg, and me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms, where each week we talk about what we're watching and examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us. As we look for the best tips— and maybe a few what-not-to-dos— from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio.

Pop Culture Moms. Find it wherever you get your podcasts.

I found out my grandfather's Charles Manson. A Hulu original true crime documentary. I submitted my DNA to unlock my grandfather's sealed records. This is all the phone calls that I had with Charles. She's the key.

You're caught up in the biggest lie in the history of lies. To unlock Manson's untold secrets. How could my blood do something so atrocious? The Hulu original, My Grandfather Charles Manson. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers.

Terms apply. FX presents The Shards. Los Angeles, 1981. We're gonna roll the school. Don't we already?

It was supposed to be the best year of their lives. I would stab someone for a drink right now. Until their friends started going missing. There's something going on. From executive producer Ryan Murphy and based on the best-selling thriller by Bret Easton Ellis.

Sounds terrifying. FX's The Shards, now streaming on Hulu.

Date is August 1st, 1990. Time is 10:00 AM.

Seabrook, New Hampshire. We're about to do a one-party consent via telephone between Cecilia Pierce and Pamela Smart. Police are now ready to arrest Pam Smart, but first they have Cecilia call her at her office one last time.

Yeah, what's going on? I was just thinking of you this morning. On that call, Pam does confess to feeling guilty about something. She says she's feeling real remorse, but it doesn't have anything to do with her husband. You should have seen me when I hit a rabbit.

I couldn't avoid it. It came totally bouncing out of the road. I felt like overkill. Yeah, well, it's roadkill. I can't believe that you felt bad but wanted to open the door.

Rabbit, but not about Greg. I do feel bad about Greg, but I feel bad about the rabbit too.

That afternoon, the police arrive at Pam's office, and she has a lot more to answer for than running over a rabbit. Exactly 3 months from the day that her husband was murdered on August 1st, 1990, the police police finally arrest Pamela Smart. Pam, did you have anything to do with your husband's murder?

I was really not worried about it because I knew that I hadn't done anything wrong. I'm thinking this is going to get straightened out. She was charged with accomplice to first-degree murder. But at this point, the case against Pam is entirely circumstantial. The boys are in custody, but they are refusing to speak.

They have convinced themselves that they will go free once they turn 18 if they just keep their mouths shut. They suddenly learn— the prosecutors are telling them that doesn't matter that you're teenagers, we are going to try you as adults. They were looking at a lifetime in the penitentiary. Suddenly they got very chatty. They changed and they became her accuser, and she became The person who planned it all.

And then they were able to make a deal with the prosecution for lighter sentences. Sometimes to put the devil in jail, you got to go to hell to get your witnesses.

My name is Paul Manciato. I'm Assistant Attorney General.

Was that Pam would, uh, get nothing and that he cared, treated her lousy. Just, there's no way that Bill and Pam could continue their relationship with Greg or I. You know, my recollection of Vance Ladamee was, wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. You know, you had to sit there and wonder, how did you let yourself get involved in this? Um, but he was extremely loyal to, to Bill.

And did you ever go into Nancy Wright's office with the complaint? Yeah, I went in and right as we went in, she was on the telephone. She put the phone on speakerphone so everybody could hear. She was in a fight with, uh, her husband Greg, and they were screaming back and forth, and then they hung up because she said, "She fell in the AC." I have to, uh, have it done. You listen to those interrogations and you're struck by how they say Pam was just determined to get this done.

How often would you talk to Pam about doing it?

Once every day.

She started yelling at me. She's saying, well, if you're never going to do this, I want to know right now so I can, uh, so we can end this right now because I don't want to I'm not going out like this. Billy Flynn comes across as a kid trying to act like a man because he's in a man's relationship with Pam Smart. And I think he wants to stand up and prove to her that he's that guy. But finally, police get down to the deed itself in the interrogation room.

What did you expect when you began this? Uh, I was told I'd get $500. Did Bill tell you where the $500,000 was coming from? He said it was coming from Douglas Scott. Do you know how much insurance money Pam was supposed to be inheriting?

$140,000. So a lot was made of this $140,000 insurance policy, that this was about sex and greed. Right, which makes no sense whatsoever because I made— I had a very good job. I made a lot of money. Money for myself at that age that I was.

I mean, I guess everybody needs money, but I really made my own money. The teens lay it all out. They say Pam told them to ransack the house and make it look like a robbery. Okay, now, was there any conversation about the gun? Uh, yes, yes, we have it.

And Bill said yes.

The teens These interrogation tapes were textbook classic. They revealed every detail. So did they concoct this, as teenagers frequently do, to protect each other? Yeah, it wasn't us, it was Pam. Or did Pam really help them?

Was she the mastermind of this whole conspiracy to murder plot? So now, since the boys have turned they have enough to take it to trial.

The trial was a sensation. The local station WMUR starts to preempt soap operas to cover this trial because what they have is a soap opera taking place in the courtroom. Spectators have been arriving shortly after midnight just to get a seat. What were you doing with your right hand? I had a knife in it.

What happened next? I was ¡Hasta luego! 1990, you know, that means we've got the hair bands beginning to give way to grunge out of Seattle. Bands like Nirvana.

Shows like Cheers were popular. It's a dog-eat-dog world, Sammy, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear. In New Hampshire, The local station WMUR starts to preempt soap operas to cover this trial. I dreamt I spent the entire evening with my sexy, gorgeous husband. The testimony is about to be saved.

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. I do. Because what they have is a soap opera taking place in a courtroom. The case had all of those elements—sex and betrayal and murder. The trial was a sensation in part because it was It was at the dawn of cameras being in the courtroom.

And so people could tune into their local station in New Hampshire, watch wall-to-wall coverage. It ushered in a whole new era, a whole new genre for TV— court trials. And before you know it, it becomes kind of nationwide news. The media coverage was was intense. In New Hampshire, Pamela Smart is on trial in what seems like the plot to a very bad movie.

It was a tsunami of attention. Most of it was negative. Many people very likely had already formed an opinion of Pam Smart before the trial ever started. We did not have a jury that was sequestered, so naturally we were concerned that they were going to be affected.

Ladies and gentlemen, it was that woman who initiated, orchestrated, and directed William Flynn to kill her husband. According to the state, Billy Flynn committed murder because Pam Smart put him up to it, luring him with money and sex. But according to the defense, Billy Flynn committed murder out of a jealous rage. What will be coming before you from prosecution witnesses will probably be one of the most vile concoctions ever assembled in one courtroom in the state of New Hampshire. The main takeaway that we wanted the jury to get is that the state of New Hampshire made a deal with the devil.

The prosecutor made a plea deal agreement with Pete Randall and Billy Flynn, the two who had actually committed the murder. J.R. Latimer, who was the getaway driver, also cut a deal. By pleading guilty and agreeing to testify, they had a chance at getting out of jail someday, and they took it.

Nice clear voice, would you please state your name so that everyone in the jury box can hear it? Patrick Allen Randall. Randall came across as a little more matter-of-fact. Some people describe it as cold. I would like to call your attention to May 1st, 1990.

Can you tell me what you did after school?

I went to Haverhill to pick up Jah's grandmother's car in order to go to Derry to kill Gregory Smart. The goal is to show that Pamela Smart, with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, masterminded this murder. Can you tell us what you said to the defendant and what she said to you? She told me they should leave the back doors unlocked, not to hurt her dog, and that we could ransack the apartment, the condo, take what we wanted, and wait for Greg to come home. And when Greg came home, we would have killed him.

What else was said at that time? I felt that stabbing Greg would be a lot easier than shooting him, and told me that if I was to stab him It'd probably get blood everywhere, enough to get blood on the sofa. It was downright strange to listen to him describe so matter-of-factly, so unemotionally, him participating in the killing of Greg Smartie. When Greg came into the door, he opened up the door and called to his dog.

Go grab him, pulled him in the house, and he was screaming and trying to run out. He switched and started asking about his dog and just told him his dog was okay. Don't worry, your dog, you know, won't hurt your dog. Randall says he then holds a knife to Greg's throat and orders him to hand over the wedding ring he's wearing. Told me he couldn't give it to me.

Why? He said his wife would kill him. He just looked sinister. You know how a shark, his eyes don't look like they're living, looks like he's dead. What happened next?

I was supposed to cut his throat. Did you at that time? No, I did not. Why not? I couldn't do it.

Why couldn't you do it?

Because of some of the things he said and because I couldn't do it. What happened after What happened after that? Bill took the gun out and shot him. He certainly came across as someone who didn't seem as bothered as you might think he would be for having been involved in this crime. What was your motivation for taking part in this murder?

Bill was my friend, and I didn't want to see him get caught for committing murder. And there were financial gains. Your peers have a huge influence on what you do and don't do. But Billy was probably admired. The power of teen friendships is very strong.

You get a bunch of misguided kids who feel like they've shown up for one another, that they're helping one another. They may not truly understand that committing homicide crosses a line that should never be crossed.

State calls Vance Latime.

Latime was a bit different in that he wasn't there for the actual murder. He was in the car outside. How should she react? She comes home and finds Greg dead. She'd ask, you know, whether she should scream, run house to house, or just run and call the police.

You get a sense of just how amateurish these teens were. Latimer made fun of Randall and Flynn for buying latex gloves that were too thin to even hide their fingerprints. And why was that funny? Because I figured the Carlos plan that he was supposedly doing for this murder that he wanted so bad, he had the better set of gloves than them. He said to stop at a store and put Scotch tape around each of their fingers and then put the gloves on over the tape to prevent fingerprints.

You know, in every big trial there's that one aha moment, the moment everybody remembers. With Simpson, it was the glove. In this case, it was Pam Smart and a white strapless bikini posing suggestively on a bed.

While Pamela Smart was the big draw today, the case against her was built on the testimony of several teenagers. Would you please state your name? William Flynn. How old are you, Mr. Flynn? Um, 16.

Groupies of the Pamela Smart trial camp out for hours. If this story were a made-for-TV movie, and it surely will be, you might not believe it. Nobody really understands that these guys were not angels. Bear in mind, Billy Flynn's sidekick Pete Randle was involved in several thefts, and Billy himself admitted to burglary. When Billy Flynn took the stand, he seemed to be every bit the innocent virgin that the prosecution painted him in the opening statements.

He tells the first time was ever physically She was saying, "Well, are you gonna kiss me?" I said, "Yeah." She said, "Well, do I have to pull them down and make you?" I said, "Yeah." Basically, if you believed Billy Flynn, you didn't need anything else. Now, can you go take us back to her driving you home that night? What happened? She started crying. And that got me upset.

She was saying that the only way that we'd be able to be together He said, "All right. If we kill Greg—" Bill Flynn is supposed to be so innocent that he was manipulated by me, right? But at the same time, he was smart enough to manipulate his friends to go kill a person they've never even met. He said, "Anybody that helped, you can have anything in the house 'cause she's insured. She came with service system, Bose speakers." And where did the defendant say she'd be?

I mean, that's what she had an alibi. I wanted to get up and say, stop lying. You think he lied to get a lesser sentence? Absolutely. Yeah, I know he lied.

You know, in every big trial, there's that one aha moment, the moment everybody remembers. With Simpson, it was the glove. In this case, It was Pam Smart in a white strapless bikini posing suggestively on a bed. As if this super sensational trial isn't crazy enough already, my God. They were made between her and a friend, a girlfriend, for a modeling contest.

They took photos of each other. Those photographs made it into court, and the prosecution claimed that that she had deliberately taken those to be seductive, to get Billy Flynn to do her bidding, to kill her husband. She said she didn't want him, she's just going to throw him out. If I wanted him, I could have him. When those photographs come in, you can see it kind of was overwhelming for a teenage boy.

This was a lot of sex for a 16-year-old to have. You can get that sense that it had a lot of influence on him, a lot of power over him enough to make him kill. The prosecution said, see, here's more examples of Pam using her wiles to keep this boy besotted by her. Not at all. Pam's side of the story is that she denies ever letting Flynn see those photos.

Of all the people that took the witness stand, I think people were more moved by Billy Flynn than anyone else. I heard Greg walking up towards the door. How was it that you overpowered him? Um, well, he wasn't, um, struggling very much. He was just, uh, asking what was going on.

What'd you tell him?

Um, I just told him to shut up. I took the gun out of my pocket. Then what happened? I cocked the hammer back, you know. I pointed the gun at his head.

After you pointed the gun at his head, what'd you do? I just stood there.

Um, 100 years it seemed like. I said, um, God forgive me.

After you said God forgive me, what happened?

I pulled the trigger. He started crying, and I'm looking at the jury and I'm seeing that they— it looks like they feel sorry for him. I wanted to scream. I mean, he killed somebody, a defenseless man on his knees, execution style, yet he became sympathetic on that stand because he was so young, so emotional. And Pam Smart is sitting over at that defense table.

She is the orchestrator. This was just a upon. Okay, so you're saying that Pam made you kill Greg? I performed the act, yes, but I never would have done it if Pam didn't tell me to. You were just like a machine or something like that?

She was the first girl I ever loved.

Now it's the defense's turn to make their case, and in a bold move, they put Pamela Smart herself on the stand. The courtroom was hushed. She was again dressed in her prim proper little outfit with her hair done perfectly with a big bow. Where is your right hand? She was insistent about taking the stand.

Pamela Ann Smart. To make sure the jury knew that she did not kill her husband. Why did you marry Greg Smart? Because I loved him. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him.

Did you have any problems in your marriage? Greg didn't come home one night. He told me that, that he had been, he had been with someone else. How did you react to that? Mad.

Because she had no expression, was immediately convicted as an ice princess and a cold-blooded killer. Maybe if Pam had cried, things would be different. The defense argument was that Pamela Smart fully admitted she'd had an affair with a teenage boy. Well, I didn't set out to have an affair with him, but I did. Pamela Smart had broken the affair off, and he got mad, and that was his retribution, to kill her husband in cold blood.

I told him that I didn't— that I didn't want to have a relationship with him anymore, and he started crying, and he said that he couldn't live without me. It's a huge risk in any trial for the defendant to take the witness stand because you're then subject to cross-examination by people who do it for a living. You said when you heard Bill Flynn was arrested, you say, "Oh my God, they heard about the affair. They arrested the wrong person." Of course you went right to the police to straighten that out, didn't you? No, 'cause I thought if the police knew that I had an affair with Bill, then they would automatically conclude that I was involved in the murder.

And also, the police never asked me. Oh, they didn't ask you? Oh. I believe it was a huge mistake to put Pam Smart on the stand. She was destroyed.

She was torpedoed on cross-examination. Made a lot of mistakes so far in this case. I sure have. Yes, I have. Was killing your husband one of those mistakes?

No, it wasn't. Not getting a divorce? Maybe that was one of the mistakes. You should have gotten divorced, but you didn't. No, I didn't want to get divorced.

I felt like the jury was either going to be hung or they were going to find me guilty. I thought there was no chance at that point that the jury was going to say I was innocent. Juror number 1, is the defendant guilty or not guilty? The verdict that's about to be handed down would be swift, the punishment severe. And yet 3 years later, it was still must-see TV when Diane Sawyer landed the only interview with the triggerman himself, Billy Flynn.

Bill Flynn, we asked him if there were one question he could ask you. I think I know what it's going to be. Wait, what do you think it's going to be?

In a sunny Californian suburb, one family's home is unusually quiet. When detectives walked into that house They said that it was like time just stood still. It's 2010 and the McStay family is nowhere to be found. Inside the home, no clear answer where the family could have gone. Husband, wife, and two children all gone, like poof, disappeared.

The search for the McStays quickly captures the nation. But for years, the search for answers only brings more questions. Who's ever heard of an entire family going missing? A family of 4 doesn't just drop off the face of the earth with no contact. Is this a family on the run, or is the truth far more sinister?

From ABC Audio and 20/20, this is What Happened to the McStays, coming August 11th wherever you get your podcast. Or subscribe to 20/20 True Crime Plus on Apple Podcasts for ad-free episodes, early access to new episodes, and so much more.

The Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. There are 3 victims we know of. The suspect is female, white, late 20s. Female serial killers kill for power, control. I believe there's a deeper motivation here.

You have no idea who you're dealing with, and you are gonna end up dead. I've been waiting for you. Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Please rise.

Adam Forelady, please stand. Has the jury reached a verdict on each of the 3 offenses charged? Yes, we have. The adrenaline starts running through your body and your heart's pumping pumpin'. After 13 hours of deliberation, it all came down to this.

That's not that long. Usually quick verdicts mean, uh, jury's gonna quit. I say it was the defendant guilty or not guilty of the offense charged. Guilty.

Greg Smart's family let out a howl. On Pam's side of the courtroom, her parents just sat in deathly silence, crushed. She went from finding out whether she was guilty or innocent to being sentenced within a matter of minutes. I am required and do hereby sentence you to the New Hampshire State Prison for Women for the remainder of your life without the possibility of parole. Mrs. Smart, you're in the custody of the sheriff.

This hearing is adjourned.

Our feelings were overjoyed. I just don't know how to explain it. I just— I wanted to scream and holler and jump and everything. The entire Smart family went to Greg's grave, and they knelt by the grave, and they formed a circle, and they told them it was finally over, that Pam had been convicted, and she was going to go to prison. I remember Diane Sawyer interviewed Pamela Smart, and I was riveted.

Tonight, Pamela Smart, her first interview since the arrest. Even 4 years after the murder, the country was still transfixed. I didn't really consider Bill to be a kid. Um, I guess age-wise he must— he was, but at the time I just felt that he was more mature. She also got the only interview ever with Billy Flynn.

I was still in love with Pam. That trial was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, ever. I guess it's hard for a lot of of people to think that you could do something like that for love. That was the whole world to me back then. I fell in love with her, then she was really all I had, you know.

If you're in the hands of somebody who's older, they're gonna have power to manipulate and to guide, and you can't always trust that. They're just not old enough to make that decision. The frontal cortex is not fully developed yet, so their ability to really think through consequences for their choices is not in place. Perhaps the most memorable moment in the Diane Sawyer special is when she tells Pam Smart about a revealing question she asked Billy Flynn. We asked him, if there were one question he could ask you, what it would be?

And here's what he said. I think I know what it's going to be. Wait, what do you think it's going to be? Did you really love me?

No? If you could ask her one question, what would it be? Whether or not she really ever loved me. That, you know, in hindsight, that might not seem like a very big deal to most people, but knowing that that she had me do this and that I did go through with it and that she never really loved me would probably kill me.

Yes, I did. I think I did really love him. If I were to ask you that question again now, does— is there a more nuanced answer? Did you love him? I feel like I loved him.

I cared for him. I had feelings. You know, people act like I just used him, you know, and went lurking through the school looking for somebody to manipulate, and it was just really wasn't even like that. For this broadcast, her mother, Linda Wojcic, traveled to New York as part of her never-ending quest to win her daughter's freedom. You've been a tireless advocate advocate.

You would be too, I would hope. Do you think your daughter had a fair trial? No. Why? The 3 things you're supposed to do from the U.S. Supreme Court when you have publicity attendant to her, like as in her trial, 1,200 newspaper articles screaming her guilt, that you'll put in safeguards, stay the trial while the publicity abates, you change the venue, and you sequester the jury.

Judge Gray refused motion after motion to do any of that. I don't think it was necessary. I don't, I don't know about everybody else, but I got the sense that 12 good people told not to watch TV can pull that feat off without much difficulty. The reality is, however, that no matter where you try Pam Smart, a jury will likely convict her based on the evidence. She tried the appeals process.

She exhausted every appeal. Remember Pamela Smart? Today, the U.S. Supreme Court turned down her final appeal. What happened with Pam is that people see her as having committed a sin more than a crime. Her sin was the affair with a young boy.

Pam's advocates and a growing chorus of feminists believe that Pam Smart got a raw deal because she's a woman. It's an old, old sin, and it's the same one, you know, that goes back to Adam and Eve, where Adam plea bargains with God and gets a reduced sentence, and Eve gets the book thrown at her. Pamela Smart has now been in jail for nearly 3 decades, but the boys finished serving their time.

It sort of made me sick knowing that that these kids were gonna get out of jail long before Pam Smart ever would. In my mind, they were more guilty than she was. I mean, these are some bad people. Even if you believe she's guilty, which I don't, the actual killers who said, "Yes, we murdered him," are walking around and having their lives, and she deserves better. Pam said to me, "You know, Mom, El Chapo," has the same sentence I do.

It's one thing for Pam's mom to rail against the sentence, but you might be surprised what the prosecutor who put her in prison thinks now. I'm not making a personal statement about Pam. What I'm saying is I don't know if it's fair for anybody who's been sentenced to life without parole to be in jail for the rest of their life. I don't know if that's fair, okay? There's a petition online Clearly, you're never going to give up.

No, no, I won't. I just hope God lets me live long enough to see her free. But now it seems Pam Smart walking free just might happen sooner than later. After all, my name is Pamela Smart. I've been incarcerated since 1990.

Thanks to this stunning change of heart, I had to acknowledge for the first time, for in my own, you know, mind, in my own heart, how responsible I was.

Pamela Smart is sent to prison and winds up in Bedford Hills. Guess what movie they play for the inmates one night? Have you got the gun? No, not yet. To die for.

And this fictionalized version of her life would now be taken as gospel. I just want to know when. Let's just do this. I don't know. Whenever Jesus says.

Oh. Look, if you don't know, I guess I have to find somebody who does. She felt that she got a lot of attention and a lot of abuse in prison. Prison as a result of that movie and people thinking they knew who she was. She was attacked by two inmates who thought she was a snitch.

They beat her and really harmed her permanently. They fractured an orbital lobe in her eye. She's got a plate on the side of her face. It's been much easier for her in later years She has been a model prisoner in every way. She's tutored other prisoners.

She's been part of the ministry behind bars. She's gotten two master's degrees. And in 2021, saying that she'd been fully rehabilitated, Smart petitioned the governor of New Hampshire seeking a commutation of her sentence. Dear Governor Sununu, without executive intervention, I will die in prison. I was struck by the letters of support, and then I got to the memo that she personally wrote.

Although I never wanted nor asked Mr. Flynn to murder Greg. She claimed she had no involvement with his death. How do I trust someone who hasn't even come to terms with her own responsibility for the death of her husband?

The vote was 4 against giving her any kind of sentence relief. Which brings us to Pam Smart's most recent effort. This video released to the media earlier this summer, a new approach after 33 years. My name is Pamela Smart. I've been incarcerated since 1990.

Taking responsibility. I found myself responsible for something I desperately I really didn't want to be responsible for my husband's murder. Pam, inside prison, began to want to take the really serious and hard work about, you know, taking stock of what led her to prison and also coming to grips with, you know, her own culpability, acknowledging her responsibility and saying, "Look, my husband's death, it's my fault." I had to acknowledge for the first time, in my own, you know, mind, in my own heart, how responsible I was, because the truth of being so responsible was, was very difficult for me. Where is Pam Smart today? What has she changed?

What has she improved? How has she made the case for her own commutation? And one of the things is her more public acknowledgment of responsibility, and I think that's important. I'm respectfully asking Thank you, Your Honor, and thank you, Your Honor, for the opportunity to come before you, the New Hampshire Executive Council, and have an honest conversation. There's a question of someone's remorse.

There's a question of someone's responsibility. But there's also the question of who the person is today. It's a testament to her character, and she becomes a prime case for a sentence commutation. This is not someone who should perish in prison.

New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu telling ABC News, New Hampshire's process for commutation or pardon requests is fair and thorough. Pamela Smart will be given the same opportunity to petition the council for a hearing as any other individual. What does redemption mean to you? It means that we don't define people by the very worst thing they've ever done in life. It means that people change, people grow, and they evolve over time.

That's our program for tonight. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Deborah Roberts. And I'm David Muir. From all of us here at 20/20 and ABC News, good night.

In 2023, a source sent me a tip. It tied baseball's biggest star to a vast illegal sports betting operation.

But then someone surprising confessed to me. His best friend. I'm Ippei Mizuhara, and you do have permission to record me. From 30 for 30 Podcasts, this is The Betrayal of Shohei Ohtani. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.