Transcript of A Conversation with Gov. JB Pritzker

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Hello, Mr. And Mrs. America and all the ships at sea. It's The Weekly Show with Jon Steward. We're back after our long respite of not doing podcast. We are back. We're taping this On Wednesday, September 10th, it's going to be airing tomorrow. More importantly, today is the day they launched Operation Midway Blitz, named for the city of Chicago and what the Nazis did through Europe. What could go wrong? They'll find out why it's called the Department of War. And by the way, I don't believe that's Wins above replacement. But we are fortunate enough today to be speaking with the field general who is tasked with repulsing this military incursion, and that is the governor of the great state of Illinois. He is joining us now from the front lines. Let's go to him now. Governor J. B. Pritzker. Ladies and gentlemen, we are obviously, we have a correspondence in the Warzone that is now Illinois. It is Governor J. B. Pritzker, sir. Welcome to the show. Operation Midway Blitz. Is it underway in Chicago? Has Chicago fallen? What the hell is happening?

Well, reporting to you from the front lines, Yes. The ice is on the ground. We have already seen some arrests. They are not in full force yet. We've only seen, well, less than 10 detainments arrests, but They only have, it seems like a dozen or two dozen people so far. We know they have as many as 300 agents that have landed at the naval station at Great Lakes. Oh, my.

They are Did they take watercraft and do a water landing and then storm the beach?

They have come with 100 vehicles. They are unmarked vehicles, and we know that they are preparing to span all of Chicago. And indeed, some of the arrests that occurred yesterday were in suburbs of Chicago. So it's a pretty widespread endeavor, and it's being led by Gregory Bovino, who led the the ICE raids in Los Angeles and caused all of that mayhem on the ground. That's their intention here, but to do it even more so here because Donald Trump wants to create a situation for Chicago where he can bring in the National Guard.

So that's Generally, you believe the idea is to provoke some unrest within the city, which it almost necessarily will, given the heightened emotions and elevated feelings about all this, and then declare some martial law and send it in. Although, didn't recently, that was declared illegal to bring in the National Guard for any law enforcement, not I'm not going to throw my Supreme Court language around, but the Posse comitatis act. Didn't they say that his actions in Los Angeles were not legal?

Yes, but as you know, the Supreme Court has ruled that a decision in one appeals court doesn't apply necessarily to another jurisdiction. We would have to go get the same ruling here. Nevertheless, I think we would get the same ruling. That doesn't mean they can't bring military troops on the ground here. It just means they can only do certain limited things. The challenge here is that, as you say, emotions are high, and that's not speaking just of Chicagoans. Remember, the people that are calling in the National Guard, the military troops, they don't want to be here either. But they're being ordered to do so, and it's under the threat of court martial for them to refuse to do so. These are folks who are coming in here. They're being ordered by, again, Bovino, who wants to cause mayhem. Some Some of them, I'm sure, are gung ho to go after people. Now, as you saw, the Supreme Court ruled yesterday, I believe, that it's okay to arrest people just because of the color of their skin or because of an accent that they may have or because they're speaking a foreign language. Look, we have a very- But if that foreign language is Swedish, I think they're still allowed to continue.

They're very specific about which language it is and which skin color we're talking about.

It It does seem that way, although we've seen Ukrainians arrested as well, not yesterday, but in past raids. I should point out to you that one of the reasons they're targeting Chicago is that they've been here before. You may recall or may not that Tom Homan actually went to a Republican fundraiser in the suburbs of Chicago just before Trump took office and announced there that they are targeting Chicago, that that is the first place they're going to come to deport people. When he did come, and he came nearly immediately after the inauguration with Dr. Phil in tow.

Oh, that was in Chicago. The Dr. Phil episode where he wore his flak jacket and went to various raids, that was in Chicago.

Dr. Phil, the noted ICE agent, was on patrol with Tom Homan and ICE. They did that, and they yielded very little in those raids. Why? Because We've been educating people on the ground about what their rights are. That an administrative warrant does not allow ICE to break down your door. They can knock on your door. You don't have to answer. Unless you're out in public and for them to grab you, essentially, they have a difficult time running people down. The other thing is we have a consent decree that's in place in Illinois that says that when ICE is detaining somebody under one of their warrants, the bystanders, the people who are with them, who in LA were being rounded up and taken as well, in Illinois, there is an extra hurdle for them with regard to those bystanders, to the folks who happened to be there at the time.

Did they make any effort to honor those administrative hurdles? Because it seems very clear that what they've decided to is whatever they want to do. It's very clearly the ethos of the administration is we will ask for forgiveness, not permission, or even forgiveness is probably too far. We will go in and ignore all of those strictures.

Well, we have a very well-organized group on the ground monitoring for these things. To your point, what we're trying to do is make it so that they have to follow know all of the rules and all of the law. If they don't, we have lawyers at the ready. I think we've done a very good job, and it's frustrating, Homan and Trump. That's why they're targeting Chicago and talking about troops on the ground in Chicago, because they've been relatively unsuccessful here with regard to deportations than they have been as compared to other cities.

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Well, let's start by acknowledging that Indeed, our law enforcement does work with the feds when it comes to arresting actual violent criminals. We do that all the time.

This is ongoing. It's ongoing.

Ongoing FBI, DEA, ATF, even ICE, where there is somebody who has committed a violent crime. I mean, that's our job, too.

Would they bring it to you? Let's say ICE says, We've done our homework. We know there are 19 people that we have warrants on that we know are in this area. They would bring it to your people and say, help us?

Well, you need to differentiate anybody who's listening and listening to Donald Trump and Tom Homan needs to know. There are two different kinds of warrants. There's a warrant that's issued by a court, a judicial warrant, which we honor all judicial warrants. If they come with a federally-issued judicial warrant for somebody's arrest, we will coordinate with them and help them arrest that person. That's different.

Even a so-called sanctuary city honors a judicial warrant.

Yeah, and we should talk about what the meaning of sanctuary city is. But let's just focus on we want criminals off the streets. We want to prosecute criminals. We do that all the time, and we do it with the feds. That's not what we're talking about here. What we're talking about with ICE is they have the ability, and this is why we have got to reform immigration laws. They have the ability to issue what's called an administrative warrant. That's something that an ICE agent without any judge or anybody else assisting can just write themselves and say, John Stuart is now our target. We have an administrative warrant issued by Joe Schmo, the ICE agent, to get John Stuart. It doesn't really require much- Without probable cause, and the Supreme Court says skin color and language can be probable cause. Exactly. Now, that's exactly right. That is why we all ought to be worried about what's going on in this country right now. An administrative warrant is what they are carrying around looking for people. Now, if they have somebody who's committed a crime, they can get a judicial warrant. That's not hard to get if you have evidence of it, just like you do with a US citizen who's committed a crime.

But that takes time and paperwork, governor. When we're If you're trying to hit 3,000 people a day, that paperwork thing is a real- That whole paperwork thing that's called due process is habeas corpus, for goodness' sakes.

Stop, sir. Yeah, let's not revert to doing anything constitutional.

Let's not go a Fourth Amendment on all this if that's how you're going to play it.

That's the problem here. Look, they have a right under federal law, and we can't contravene federal law or override federal law. The supremacy clause doesn't allow that. They have a right to go arrest somebody with an administrative warrant. What they don't have the right to do with an administrative warrant is break down somebody's door or do things that are quasi illegal.

What about the things that we've seen at the Hyundai plant, like a workplace raid or a Home Depot where people might be gathering to try and get work? Are those things in a gray area? Administrative warrants.

Those Those are administrative warrants. And indeed, they actually now aren't using administrative warrants. They're just saying, You're in the presence of somebody who we have an administrative warrant for, so we're going to arrest you.

And they are on the ground. Are they coordinating with any agencies that they're just in there freelancing? There's no coordination.

They didn't tell us what day they were arriving. They didn't tell us what day they're going to start operations. They didn't tell us they were going to the Great Lakes Naval Station. We got one call, and that was from this Gregory Bovino. This is the fellow from Customs and Border Patrol, again, that led the LA raids, who called our state police and said, We are going to be preparing and maybe fully prepared by the weekend. That's this last weekend. But other than that, did not say, This is when we'll be beginning operations and we'd like your assistance in any way. We don't know much.

Have you experienced this at any other time with any other presidency? I don't mean in the way that they're doing it, but in terms of coordinating ICE or Homeland Security or those things, how unusual is this? Just so that we can have a sense that, yeah, this is not how things are typically done, or this is how you would do them to create a hostile environment.

Well, this is how you would do them to create a hostile environment. Look, I've been governor. I started during Trump's first term and through Joe Biden's term, and now this term. I have that experience with two presidents. What I can say is that in the first term, we saw a lot less of this. During Biden's term, we did see some of this, but not nearly like what we're seeing now.

Now, would Biden's people coordinate, though? Would they call you and say this, or would they do the same thing? Is it a bit of a rogue agency?

They are acting as a rogue agency now, but during Biden's term, we did get a call to say that they're going to be going to these neighborhoods or they have these warrants that are issued. Often, they would come with a judicial warrant, I might add.

Did they use administrative warrants in the Biden administration?

Yes, they did, and they had the legal right to do that. But again, what the Biden, I mean, what the Trump administration administration has done is they've taken these administrative warrants and essentially told the ICE agents, go to town, guys, whoever you think you might be able to get, that guy down the street looks bad, write up a warrant. And that's what they're doing as opposed to a land endeavor that's really about taking somebody off the streets who needs to be or who is truly illegal.

And that also blurs the line because there's been a lot of talk, obviously, from the administration about the dangerous nature of Chicago. I think, look, our country in general is more dangerous than I think all of us would like it to be. And he's talked a lot about Chicago, it's the most dangerous city in the world, and that's why we're going in. But that's very different than immigration enforcement. What part of that mission creep is occurring right now? Are they also making law and order inroads? What is the purpose of this? Has anyone discussed that with you?

Well, only what? No, nobody's discussed it with me. Donald Trump simply stands up in front of cameras and says this is about fighting crime. But as you know, the reality is that federal civilian law enforcement, hugely important. We coordinate all cities, major cities, coordinate with federal civilian law enforcement. We've We've been doing this for a long time with the FBI, with the ATF, with DEA. You might know, you might have heard that about 50% of all the gun crimes that are committed in the city of Chicago are committed with guns that were purchased in another state. That's right. Often, by the way, and just to point out where we are geographically, if you look at every state that surrounds us, that includes Wisconsin, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, all of those states have very lax gun laws. We don't in Illinois. We've banned assault weapons, for example. We've banned these items that make your gun an automatic weapon, essentially.

That they just legalized, I think, three months ago with the Trump administration, they did it.

Yeah, not only that, they're giving tax credits for silencers on your gun. Safety first. Safety first. Well, no, quiet in the neighborhood first. Yes, that's right. That's what it is. But so Indiana is often the place where most of these guns that I'm talking about are coming from. Are these guns undocumented, sir?

Are you having an influx of undocumented guns? Could you do your own type of sweeps to get undocumented weapons off the streets?

That's a great way to think of it. Yes, I'd love to deport those guns from this country. Perhaps the middle of the ocean. But what we do is with regard to all the guns that are coming across the border is we work with ATF, and we do a lot of gun interdiction and confiscate guns from people who shouldn't have them. We also, by the way, have universal background checks in the state of Illinois. They don't have that in any of the surrounding states or in the country, but we need one. This is a challenge that we've got that Donald Trump likes to think that the military and ICE, which ICE, apparently, is becoming his new militia for his personal use. But when you combine his thinking about military troops and ICE, he thinks that's fighting crime. We know that that's not how you fight crime. Listen, our National Guard, I want to talk about the Illinois National Guard, and we can talk about others.

By the way, he's not using the Illinois National Guard to come into Chicago or doesn't want to. He's bringing in from other states.

We don't know. We don't know because he hasn't called up. As far as we know, we've heard rumors that he's calling up the Texas National Guard to bring them, which is a double offense because it was Texas that sent us the tens of thousands of migrants simply to make a point and gave us no resources and so on. Anyway, we could talk about Texas all day. But let me just say that about our National Guard, and I think it's important to recognize this, these folks are extremely well-trained. I think we have the best-trained National Guard in the country in Illinois, and they do serve abroad, defending our country. They also are helping us when I need to call them up in emergencies. During COVID, they helped us out with vaccinations. We've had floods in the state. We need them to help with sandbags and to evacuate people. They do amazing work. They are not trained to do law enforcement. We have a small cadre of about 250 military police who are better trained at crowd control and other things that are related to law enforcement, but really not the same as local law enforcement or Illinois state police.

That's the first problem I would point out about calling up military troops to come into a city as if that's going to fight crime. Obviously, if there's an insurrection or some other emergency, you're going to need troops.

Or if they wanted to declare some emergency based on whatever hyperbole they wanted to use.

That's the point, right? But I'm just pointing out that if you really want to fight crime, and I've asked for this, I've been very public about it, please send us more ATF agents, send us more FBI. I've talked to those agencies, the folks that are on the ground here, they'd love to have more agents here to help them, and I would, too. So please do that. Do not send military.

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And he's cut all of those, John.

All of them. That's the point that I was trying to get to. He has cut anything that might help mitigate crime in cities for the approach of parking a tank on the Miracle Mile or wherever it is that they want to put things. I'll go even further. I think for the new budget, they're cutting ETF by, I think, 30%. Try and square that circle for us as to how crime is fought in cities, how poverty is fought in cities, how resources can help, and how they're actually not concerned with law and order. They're concerned with authoritarian fetishization.

Well, let's debunk the myth that we have somehow defunded police. It's Donald Trump that's defunded police. I've hired more police in Illinois. Donald Trump has taken all this money away and not just from police, and including, by the way, programs for local law enforcement. But as you said, ATF, FBI, et cetera.

Grants that were already appropriated, by the way.

Exactly. It's illegal what he's done, but he doesn't care, and he wants to create a problem. Remember, this is all about fomenting a problem so that he can bring militarization to our cities. But you're right, crime is a complex thing to fight, and we've gone at it every which direction you possibly can. I'll give you an example. We have the best, most elaborate community violence intervention programs in the entire country. We put $250 million in to building out our capability on the ground. We have peacekeepers that sit in the most violent communities on the corners and talk to those young people who are wanting to get involved in gangs or attracted to gangs to keep them out of it and to bring down the level of angst and anger that exists maybe between two rival gangs. You know what? It's worked. It's worked. Those people are vital to our safety in the city of Chicago. When I came into office, the guy who preceded me was a Republican. He defunded all these programs.

Is it they believe that those programs have no efficacy? Yes.

They think if you just have more police, that that's enough. I think you need police, but just to be clear, when I dial 911, I want somebody to come because there's an emergency. So I'm for police, but that's a- Are you saying there are a lot of ancillary services that go into violence reduction?

And let's also be clear, these neighborhoods that are dangerous, the people who live in those neighborhoods They want more police resources. They want more safety, but it's complex. One of the things that I think drives it is this influx, iron pipeline guns, and all kinds of other things that help drive the chaos in these neighborhoods.

You mentioned housing and education and health care. Those all play into it. If you are hopeless, you are much more likely to believe that crime is your only alternative. If we give people an opportunity, possibly a job, possibly a job that doesn't pay $7. 25 an hour, but how about $15 an hour like we've raised our minimum wage to, and we should in the country, at least to $15. But putting that issue aside, just the idea that you can get somewhere from a difficult neighbor, a trauma-filled neighborhood, giving people hope, giving them an opportunity, maybe to start a business in their neighborhood, those are all things that have the potential for reducing crime. And importantly, peacekeeping, community violence intervention programs, again, they work, and we have proved it in Chicago. Arnie Duncan runs one of the big ones that's here. He's the former Secretary of Education and has been hugely successful. We've looked at, he and I and the other organizations have looked at each set of blocks where the highest violent crime occurs. What happens when you actually put peacekeepers in those neighborhoods and work with people on the blocks? Like I said, it actually has the effect of giving people some hope and giving them an opportunity.

Violence has come way down. Homicide rate has been cut in half.

What about in terms of the frustrations? Is there a frustration in Chicago? I know here in New York, there are times where you'll read a story, a guy will commit a horrific crime, and you're like, and he's out on parole after committing 14 Any other horrific crimes. Do you have that same scenario? Is there a frustration with a revolving door in terms of justice? Has the judicial system there done a good job of determining who's an actual danger to society, who isn't, and those kinds of things? Is that an area that can also be improved upon?

Yeah. Our frustration led us to pass a law that actually requires... We've gotten rid of cash bail. Let me explain why cash bail is a terrible idea that should go the way of the dodo bird. That is that what happens is whether you committed a violent crime or nonviolent crime, you get in front of a judge, and they essentially put a price on whether or not you can get out of jail and awaiting trial. Well, guess what? The worst of the worst, the people who have allegedly committed really terrible violent crimes can buy their way out if they happen to have enough money. People who have committed a low-level felony or a misdemeanor can only get out if they can buy their way out as well. The question is, should you keep somebody in jail who's committed a low-level offense, non-violent offense, if they don't have $500 for bail, as opposed to somebody who's committed an attempted murder? Yes, we've given judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys the ability to a hearing to determine whether somebody is, in fact, a danger to the community and should be held and whether, in fact, somebody ought to be let go.

You know what? We've had this in place now for coming on two years, and it turns out that the same What does that mean? It's a small percentage of people show up for their trials as did before we had no bail. That's what you want. You want people showing up.

But what about the discretion? Have the judges shown good discretion in actually holding people who are dangerous to the community?

Yeah. The answer is they've made mistakes. But let me just say that bail doesn't make it any better. Just buying your way out doesn't say whether somebody is a danger to the community or not. The way we're doing it now is much more likely to keep somebody who is a danger to the community in jail.

Right. Okay. Do you have recourse when you find there are certain judges whose discretion seems to be off kilter?

Vote them out.

Oh, that's the only recourse? Yes.

Judges cannot be removed unless they violated a judicial canon, some oath of office. But they are making judgments. Sometimes they're not good judgments, but they make judgments. But what I find ironic is that Republican judges, and ours are elected all across the state, Republican judges often like to, when they've let somebody out who then goes and commits another crime, they like to blame the law that disallows cash bail instead of taking responsibility for having made a bad decision themselves. Which would you rather have? Would you like the perpetrator to choose if they have enough money to just buy their way out? Or do you think we ought to have a system where judges and prosecutors are helping to determine whether somebody is a danger to the community and keeping them in danger?

A judge is allowed to say, No matter what, we believe this person is a danger to our community, therefore, bail is not granted. Then they also have the discretion to say, This is a misdemeanor, and this person is not a threat to the community. Therefore, money does not change hands, but that doesn't mean that the judge cannot hold whoever it is that they want to hold.

Only for felonies and serious crimes, the decision is made by the judge. For misdemeanors, they Unless there is some other extenuating circumstance, that person is let out without bail. Obviously, they have to show up at trial. As I said to you, we have the same percentage of people showing up for trial now as we did before we got rid of cash bail.

In your mind, as the governor of a state that has... Is it a lack of resources that allows this entrenched poverty and misery in certain areas of cities? Why have these issues been so intractable?

Yeah. I mean, look, I try to address this every day. It's part of my job to think about how do we How do we lift up communities, reduce crime? How do we give people more hope? I would argue to you that there has been massive disinvestment from certain communities, especially in Chicago, but I would say all across the state of Illinois, and I guess we could apply that nationally. The disinvestment means that the dollars have flowed instead to the most powerful communities, to the most powerful people, and away from people who don't have much political power at all. I'll give you an example of something that I've worked on over the course of my lifetime, early childhood education. Let me explain how this is related. The children who need preschool and who need zero to three services services are the children who are in the poorest communities whose parents are the poorest people.

All that's probably funded by their property taxes. If you're in a place where property taxes are negligible because properties aren't worth a lot, I imagine that snowballs.

Well, unless it's funded by the state or by the federal government, as you're pointing out, when it's not, and that's disinvestment, and there's nothing in the community to support it, then yes, there are no services. The point is that the investment that needs to be made, we know that when you give those kids early childhood education, when you provide them with early childhood development resources and their parents, those kids are much more likely to end up graduating from high school, much more likely- You're talking about Head Start and programs like that. Yes, and we have all kinds of programs on top of Head Start that are hugely beneficial. We've invested in those things in Illinois. Again, you talked about how complex it to fight crime. But guess what? Someone who goes to preschool is much less likely to end up in prison during the course of their life. They've done longitudinal studies over 40 years to determine these things. It's not like we're guessing. I just think that as you were suggesting earlier, when you talk about education, housing, these are really about fighting crime, too. They're also about being humane and being the wealthiest country in the world and the ability for us to- Helping families stay together, the things that provide stability.

Indeed. That's the country I want to live in, where everybody has an opportunity. I'm not suggesting everybody gets a huge handout and gets to live free on everything. It's just everybody ought to have a reasonably similar starting line, at least when you're born, and given the same opportunities to grow up, have a decent education, and be able to look at a potential job and aim for it and get it. That's a world that we're far from right now, and especially when we're moving backward under this administration.

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When we look at these funding cuts that are being made, these grants that are being taken away, they disproportionately affect blue cities, blue states. There's clear Clearly a vindictiveness about the way that this administration is approaching funding commitments, whatever their priorities are. You see, the National Guard goes into Los Angeles. They defund He fund a lot of programs for Chicago. He's always talking about his nemeses, and they're always blue states and blue cities. And they've been very effective at being able to do that I guess my question to you is, what can be done as collective action? Let me roll it back because I think this is actually a larger issue. 70 plus million people voted for the Democrat in this last election or voted for a Democrat Democratic representation, whether it be in the House or the Senate. In my lifetime, I don't recall an era where taxation without representation was higher. Democrats have no representation at the federal level. House Democrats are neutered. They don't control any committees. Senate Democrats are neutered, hindered by arthritic leadership and the 60 vote, majority rules, all those kinds of things. The Supreme Court, very clearly, there is no liberal, real representation there.

The executive, obviously, has been supercharged with a unitary principle. The only real representation right now that Democrats can look to are blue state governors. You're carrying the a mantle for anything that a voter who voted for a Democrat can hold on to. It feels like there must be some collective action that can be taken by these blue state governors to find ways to leverage their strength and power against a vindictive federal government. Donald Trump, he excels at one thing, finding the pressure points and pushing the limits of his authority to be vindictive and push what he wants. Why is it that the Democratic governors are not in a room together right now? Discussing what they can withhold from the federal government or how they can leverage their collective power? That was a long question.

No, but let's start with, I wish you'd have this I had a conversation with some of my Democratic colleagues who are governors across the country. I know you have one or two. Because I believe, for example, at the moment, that Democratic governors should be standing up and speaking out fighting forcefully, rhetorically, because- But not individually.

Newsom is out there. He's got a great social media strategy. It's really funny. I think it's effective. Shapiro stays out of the way, but sheer a little bit as well. But there's no one voice.

I understand what you're saying, and I can't speak to why others haven't joined the fight. See, this is what I would argue. I know what you're saying, like why don't we have a council and act as one. I would argue that it's because there seems to be a difference of opinion. I'm on team fight. I believe that we all ought to be standing up right now. This is about preserving our democracy, and we should talk about the issues that really matter to voters. Democracy matters to some portion of voters, but we need to talk about the rest. Anyway, let's put that aside just for a moment. On democracy, that is a point that we all should be gathering around.

I'm even talking just about funding. Let's say somebody, if He's taken away all the appropriation. What he does is, how many times has he threatened Illinois with the removal of federal funding? Look what he just did at Northwestern University.

Yes. We've had to take him to court consistently. I think we've had 38 cases that we've had to take to court just about what you just described. Appropriations were made by the Congress that were signed into law, and he's just not abiding by the law. That's where we have been fighting him.

When When you talk to your fellow government, there is a Democratic Council. Yes. When you say, Can someone bring up? Can we withhold funds? What can we use to protect ourselves?

We do share that information. I created an organization of governors who are focused on preserving democracy. We have a group of attorneys general that work with the governors because those are our lawyers, those are the guys going to court. The courts, by the way, vitally important in this moment. If they fail, our democracy is going to fail. But our attorneys general and the courts are what we have to rely upon for a lot of what we're doing at the moment. Remember, I've got ICE agents coming on the ground. There's almost nothing I can do except monitor them. I've told the people of Chicago, pull out your iPhone, your Android phone, video absolutely everything you see with an ICE agent involved. Of course, knowing the rights of people on the ground knowing their rights.

But what about withholding federal monies that you're going to be sending upstream to get distributed to red states? What are the levers of coercion? You're being coerced and extorted in all kinds of different ways, whether it be education, whether it be social programs, whether it be- But we don't collect a lot of revenue for the federal government.

They collect their own. There isn't a lot that we can withhold. It's frustrating. Believe me, it's frustrating. That's why I think we all have to focus on the 2026 Congressional elections. I wish I could tell you that there is some other method. And believe me, I talk to governors all the time. I am friends with all of the Democratic governors. We talk all of the time, whether it's Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer or Andy Besheer, Tony Evers, Tim Walls, and and Gretchen and Andy. We are the Midwestern Democratic governors. We talk all the time because we share a lot in common, especially the protection of our Great Lakes, which Donald Trump doesn't care a wit about. But that is, FYI, I, 80% of the country's fresh water. Eighty %. Yeah. If there's something that we all ought to be focusing on protecting, that's one of the big ones. Donald Trump doesn't give a damn. But anyway, the Democratic governors, Morahili and so on, we talk all the time. There are slightly differences of opinion, maybe not so slight, about how hard you should be fighting. I personally believe Now is when you got to put it all on the line.

I led the building of a Holocaust Museum. What the survivors taught me is that what they like to teach young children who come to the museum is to ask yourself about what your values are. I would say this to all Democratic elected officials right now. What are your values? I mean, are you in this moment, are you a collaborator? Are you a bystander? Just letting things happen? Are Are you a rescuer, an upstander? The survivors would tell you be an upstander.

People need a roadmap. Because I've heard a lot of this, and Ken Martin says this a lot from the Democratic Party, We fight and we need to raise our voices. I think a lot of people are going like, Okay, what exactly does that mean? Why don't the Blue States file a class action lawsuit? Why don't- We are.

We do. We do. Yeah, we do. Our attorney The attorneys general. That happens a lot with our lawyers. The attorneys general actually do a lot of... Democratic attorneys general do a lot of work together. They file suits together. They join together. That is happening.

Any promising out-of-the-box ideas that I've heard.

There are no crazy new ideas that I've heard. Protecting our university, I mean, all these things. That's why, and I think we've all discovered... Here, let me just differentiate because you said you've never seen it like this. I just want to say, if you look, here's what's different about this moment. There have been times in the past, Obama had both houses of Congress that were Democratic. That's happened in the past where it's all one party controlling Washington. The difference is that what is happening now is there used to be moderate Republicans. There used to be Republicans who were independent, who actually did something different than what the President would want. The Republicans have completely abdicated any independence. Even the ones who you might have had private conversations with in the past or currently who disagree with the President, go along with them anyway because they're afraid and they're giving into that fear. Why are you in public office in the first place? I used to work for a guy named Terry Sanford. He was the governor of North Carolina in the early '60s and then became a US Senator in the 1980s. He was the President of the University I went to Duke University.

Terry Sanford, in the early '60s, when it was very unpopular to do so, did the right thing and integrated the schools. He integrated... This is in the south. When George Wallace was popular in the south.

Terry Sanford- The last time that the National Guard was sent into states without their consent.

Yeah, although the reason for that was abrogation of a federal law.

No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying, though, that that's the difference between how that power is being used.

Exactly. I would just point out that people who are elected to office ought to be more like Terry Sanford. That is to say, yes, it's great to be in office and to do all the duties, cut ribbons and give speeches and what have you. But it's these moments, right? It's this moment when you should be standing up, speaking out, doing everything you can to fight back against what clearly is an authoritarian, maybe even fascist end to this, and the attempt to, in my view, to take over the elections in 2026 and 2028. That's why the militarization.

Well, he signed an executive order as well on no mail-in ballots. He's creating a federal regime for elections.

You know what he wants, right? He pushed the Stop the Steel movement. He pushed January sixth. He pardoned the January sixth rioter.

Because he backs the blue. He's a law and order guy.

That's why he- Right, exactly. Anyway, this is the difference in this moment. Republicans are not independent at all. We have blue dog Democrats. I mean, look back just a few years, and there were Democrats who would occasionally vote with Republicans on things, right? But now you've got no Republicans willing to talk to them.

You've got Republicans and Thomas Massey. Is any of the difficulty in coordinating have to do with, and maybe this is an uncomfortable It's no question to even ask. But a lot of Democratic governors have presidential aspirations. I think a lot of people think whoever is the next in line for controlling the Democratic Party, it's not coming from Washington. It's probably going to be coming from the States. Are the competing interests of people who have aspirations, including your sofa national office, is that preventing collective action because of individual ambition?

I can't speak for others. Here's what I think gets somebody elected, getting things done, actually delivering. When you're a governor, you have to deliver. We are literally managing a state day to day, every day we're in office. Raising the minimum wage is something that I fought for and succeeded at. I got a massive infrastructure bill passed before the Congress ever got around to it because we needed it, and Congress wasn't acting at the time. So I got that done. Protecting workers with a worker's rights amendment. I mean, these are all things that are actual.

But I'm saying in terms of... So there's a slightly different mandate here for the governors because they're carrying the burden and the mantle of the last vestige of power invested in Democrats in this country. It's not just anymore about running your states and getting those things done. It's about creating a bulwark against... It's the only thing other than a few district courts, standing in the way. Yeah.

I'll give you an example. Again, look, we have certain powers, and I am exercising those powers. Here's an example. We have created a sanctuary here for people who are looking to exercise their reproductive rights. All around me, Missouri, Indiana, Iowa, et cetera, Kentucky, they've made it hard for people or impossible for someone to get an abortion. In Illinois, we are not not only allowing them to come into Illinois and creating resources that are available to them, but also we are protecting them once they get here from being prosecuted in their home state, whether you're a health care provider who does abortions or someone who actually needs an abortion. That's something I can do that pushes back on what Donald Trump and the Republicans have tried to do in Washington. I can't do everything. I mean, it is just true. I can't stop ICE from doing the things that they're doing that I don't like. But But we're doing the things that we can think of. I'm always looking for new ideas, and that is why you are right, why Democrats and Democratic governors need to and are talking to one another and sharing ideas. We did this.

Good news. We figured out how to do this, many of us, during COVID, because we needed each other.

That collective action.

Also in the face of uncertainty, I needed to call up Gretchen Whitmer. I needed to call up Andy Besheer and say, Hey, what are you What are you doing about this problem? Is it okay for high school football to be played? What are your doctors saying? How are you handling that? Just examples like that. We all had to talk to one another, and they were about things that really mattered in our states. Those relationships, Tim Walls, Tony Evers, Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Bichou, they have been here, all of us together, for nearly our entire two terms. At least speaking of the Midwest, we do talk to one and we do coordinate with one another, and we agree on so many things. I'm not suggesting that we don't get along with Gavin Newsom or with Laura Healey. I'm only suggesting that Democrats do talk to one another. I have talked to Gavin Newsom when he has had a good idea there that I'm like, Hey, is that something we should do? Or where he has talked to me about, What are you doing about this issue? Those conversations occur, but it's very hard to create a council to move in some direction because we control our individual states.

One last thing on that point, I just want to say. I'm frustrated. Once again, I'm frustrated by the fact that, and I'm not just talking about governors now, Democrats have not stood up for the fight in a way that I think they should.

Well, there's no real lead. When you look in Washington, there really is a dearth and a vacuum vacuum of leadership and ideas. At first it was worrisome, now it feels pathetic.

I don't disagree with you, and I'm screaming every day and reasoning with people, too, every day about this. All I can say is it's moving in the right... The good news is it's moving in the right direction. It's just moving at about 15 miles an hour, and it could be going at 100 miles an hour. So I'm frustrated. Here's the next thing that I think we all should be paying attention to. Are they going to shut down the government or not? Are Democrats simply going to go along with the big, beautiful bill and the budget that's associated, or are they going to stand up and fight? I think that's a decision that's going to get made in Washington. But, boy, I think we all should be advising them about what they should do.

Right. And if I could, a piece of advice for your attorneys general, be creative, because that's how we got in this situation. I think what the Republicans don't understand right now is Donald Trump is also leaving a roadmap for the next leader that might not be a part of their party. That's right. And that the government doesn't only spend money on things blue states want. They spend them on things that red states want as well. If you think if the new normal is vindictiveness and unitary power and a Supreme Court that allows the executive this a leeway, don't think it won't be used the other way.

Exactly. What about... The example I'll give is if you allow the President to use the military to impose his will on states, well, how about in the reverse situation, some Democrat wants to impose their will using the military by taking your guns away. Sure. There might be people who are in favor of doing something like that, but should that be constitutional allowed? Should the Supreme Court go along with that? No, none of us should be okay with that thing.

But if the Fourth Amendment means nothing, why does the Second Amendment need something? I mean, that's really where we're at in this. I mean, they're picking and choosing their constitutional point.

The Supreme Court, especially, because we can have bad guys who get elected to office, but the Supreme Court, at the end of the day, is supposed to be the auditor of actually what's constitutional and what should be allowed.

Right. Well, governor, I appreciate you spending the time. We wish you the best, Chicago. We were there for the What a wonderful place. I've been there many times, had some really memorable nights there that I will not talk about, but it's great. I wish you guys the best, and I hope things don't escalate in the ways that you don't want. I hope that the other governors take seriously the idea of creative collective action because it's so necessary.

I'm with you. Thanks so much for having me on.

Thank you, Governor Pritzker. Talk to you soon. Hey, everybody. I know most of you probably just fast forward into the pod to get to these ad reads because they are delightful and you love them. And today's episode has brought you back Ground News. If you didn't fast forward through the podcast to get to the Ground News, then you don't know what you're talking about. Ground News is this website, and it's an app, and they're on a mission. They're giving readers an easier, more data-driven way to read the news. So they, unlike the way that I read in a completely discombobulated fashion, they You will organize articles from around the world by story and provide breakdowns of political bias to help you understand what you're reading. We all know most of the headlines out there are designed to provoke what we like to call fear and anger. You got to get the reptile brain in You got to get the clicks, my brothers. Well, rest assured, Ground News is the response to that. Prioritizing media literacy, helping readers sort through the noise, get to the heart of the news. It is a great resource to get clear information and help you form your own, oh, God bless them, independent opinions.

What the? So no more blaming your bad opinions on me or being ill-informed. Go to groundnews. Com. Groundnews. Com/steward. Subscribe for 40% off the unlimited access Vantage subscription. It brings the price down to about $5 a month. Well worth it. That's groundnews. Com/stuard or scan the QR code on screen. I always forget. You're talking to these guys like, You have got to help us on a national level, and they're like, You know I'm running a state.

A big one, too. Right? Not one of the small ones.

It's not one of those guys running those states where they're like, How many people you got? 700,000?

Yeah. You might be able to walk and chew gum if you're the governor of Rhode Island. Oh, shit.

Very hard to match. The smaller states, surprise It's amazingly tricky. It's the Wyoming's where they got all that space. You could do whatever you want.

Land management.

That's what I'm talking about. I do wonder how they're going to avoid the provocations that can accelerate these conflicts.

Yeah. I mean, the fact that Texas, too, sent 50,000 immigrants to Chicago and is now potentially the one sending their National Guard to round up these immigrants, it just feels like it's like manufactured crises all the way down.

The only thing I would push back on that is, Texas really was at the center of a large influx of migrants that put a tremendous strain on their state. They didn't have to be so dickish about it. But the truth is, they had a point about how that- And if you get covered that way. And how that stresses the resources of an area. If you think about even in New York, if you send 40,000 people to New York, it's a city of 10 million people. What that did to people, people were running around like their hair was on fire. The thing that bothers me the most about all of this is it seems so disingenuous. There is no collective, Hey, how do we work together to tackle what our actual intractable problems? It's more like, How do I do a performative, outrageous act that elevates my profile.

They have no interest in addressing the actual underlying problems.

I thought that was really interesting when he said, Look at what they're dealing with the grants for violence reduction.

And the ATF, the proposed budget cuts there. If you are actually interested in solving these problems, we could trip away. We could at least keep funding the ATF of where it currently. You don't have to cut.

I have never understood how they are able to remove the influx of illegal guns and the ease at which people get these incredibly powerful weapons from the idea of... I mean, look at what the meals they're making on those terrible tragedies from people who've been killed by undocumented or what happened in North Carolina on that train.

They're naming these operations after them. It's- Right. Yeah.

But what about the names of the people killed by? It's as though that doesn't exist. It's a separate universe. You can't say you're for law and order and not address that.

I just think about Nathan Dom in those moments where it's just it is. It is the most important, and that's the end of that conversation.

Nathan Dom, of course, is a state senator from Oklahoma. I remember saying, does requiring training for firearms make make it safer? Yes. But you've removed those requirements? Yes. So you're making us less safe? No.

I was going to add something unrelated, but I felt like at the end of our episode today, we maybe needed a little pick me up since, as Pritzker said, there was a 15-mile-an-hour move by the Democrats to do something of recourse in some way. But something I do think we should highlight is the fact that federal grand juries from LA to DC are rejecting these trumped up charges against people who are having interactions with federal officers, et cetera. People are doing this on their own, removed from each other. It's a coordinated, uncoordinated recourse against the abuse of power right now. So people are doing it.

You know what? That's a very important thing to remember is that acting locally and in those areas is still holding as hard as the Supreme Court is trying to not let that happen. It's nice to know that it's still out there.

Absolutely.

So I get it. Brittany, while we were gone, did people chime in over the break? Do they have things they need to know?

We have so many questions for you, but we're going to start with just a couple today. Two.

Two.

Two. All right. John, would you say the fusion of Fox News and Trump's presidency is finally Roger Aill's wet dream come true?

First of all, I don't know if there is a mental image for me that is more disturbing than Roger Aill's wet dream. Now I have to think about Roger Aill's waking up going, What happened to the bed? What the heck? Did someone spill applesauce? What the hell is going on around here?

I've never wanted to be blasted to the moon as much as right now. Thank Thanks, John.

I think Fox News and Trump's presidency, I do think, look, this was their dream to create this thing that would inoculate a Republican President from criticism. I think it's been an incredible tool for deemphasizing any institution and any institutional knowledge that may have been viewed as corrosive to the Republican experiment. So, yes, I would imagine that wherever he is, and I won't look up, but he is coming in his laterhosen or whatever it is that they wear It's got to be later, Hosen. In the place that he finds himself. What else we got?

John, what me- By the way, no one is still listening because as soon as went into Roger A. L.

's wet dream, I think people just justifiably went, Yeah, I'm out.

That's enough of this. Yeah, I crawled out of my skin. The phone went off the window.

Yeah, I get that.

John, what me?

Good segue, really.

I am trying. Okay. John, what name do you think bugs Donald Trump more? Jeffrey Upstein, Stormy Daniels, or Barack Hussein Obama?

Oh. Barack Hussein Obama, I actually think he loves because that's a weapon for him. He views Barack Hussein Obama as he's got that arsenal in his pocket. He pulls it out whenever he needs it. Something's going. In fact, Barack Hussein Obama is almost like if this was a Harry Potter thing. Who's the guy? Baltimore comes in. Jeffrey Epstein. And then Donald Trump, Barack Hussein It's like, Deleterius elopetrius, and gets to throw it. And Stormy Daniels, I think he looks upon as like, you bring up an old girlfriend from high school and you're like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're past all that now.

I wish her well. That was like three bazillion news cycles ago. That's right.

Imagine you have a situation with someone like Stormy Daniels. You do that. Your wife is like, Boys will be boys, and your lawyer and your accountant are the ones who go to jail. So I'm sure for him, that's just a dodged... It wasn't even a bullet, it just a small cone, and there wasn't even a detour. But Barack Hussein Obama, Jeffrey Epstein, I think, are the two polarities that exist in his life. He's got one that actually presents a little bit of intrigue and danger to him, and then he's got the other that he uses when he's in trouble. It's like a flare that he sends up. That's where I'd go there. I love that we take all these questions very seriously.

I do feel like I think those three names, Barack Obama, Stormy Daniels, Jeffrey Epstein, that's the most obvious Mary Fuck kill I've ever heard.

Yes.

There's no question.

There's no question of who you're killing in that. That's really funny. Brittany, how can they keep in touch with us?

Twitter, we are a weekly show pod, Instagram threads TikTok Blue Sky. We your weekly show podcast. You can like, subscribe, and comment on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart, and I'm very excited to announce our new OnlyFans account, Johnny's Hot Takes.

Are we on OnlyFans?

Your wishes come true. Yes. We have negative subscribership. Come on.

No, baby. I'm bad baby, baby. I'm going to cash it outside.

For legal purposes, I'm kidding.

I'm deflated. I thought we were in. Well, it's good to be back. It's good to see everybody. Everybody looks well-rested and fired up. Thanks again to lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany Mamedevik. Now, video engineer Rob Vitola was unable to join us this week, but capably in the hands of Sam Reid, and of course, our audio editor and engineer, Nicole Boyce, researcher and associate producer, Gillian Speer, and our executive producer is Chris McShane. Katie gray, we are back, and we shall see you all next week. Thanks so much for listening. Goodbye. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions.

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