Transcript of 135. Lauryn & Michael Bosstick: The Unfiltered Truth About Running a Business With Your Spouse

Michael and I have extreme clarity on what we stand for. What you can expect from our show is it is for people who want to be the best version of themselves.

We're lucky to get the information. We're learning the same way the people listening are learning.

You guys have become major influencers in the wellness space. I feel like you guys have given a lot of practical advice.

I'm not a human biologist, and because I'm not a doctor, I should stop talking because I don't have the credentials.

I mean, look, I don't have the credentials either. I'm not a physician.

That's the biggest attack that I get. I would say you have the credentials. We have a A lot of different health professionals on, and having you on was really interesting. The nutrient deficient part is not talked about enough, and I've never had someone come on the show and talk about it like you. That's my next layer of what I'm doing. What nutrients am I missing and how can I figure that out?

Your journey didn't start as a health and wellness journey. A large part of it has morphed into a health and wellness journey. What were some of the tipping points for you?

One, we want to be an example to each other, but two, for our kids, there's a journey where we realize we are not the healthiest versions of ourselves. We're not doing the things that we should be doing. We have access to people like yourself and others that are sharing this information. Why not implement it at a greater level and be an example? Stop being the tugboat and be the lighthouse.

You guys met when you were 12. 12. Your advice to couples starting a business and going into business together.

You want to have bad health problems and bad financial outcomes, pick the wrong woman. If you run a business with anyone, Hey, guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human podcast.

I'm your host, human biologist, Gary Breca, where we go down the road of everything anti-aging, longevity, biohacking and everything in between. As you just heard, I have some very special guests on the podcast today. Actually, I'm a very special guest on their podcast, which has turned into my podcast.

That's perfect. The next time, I expect to be in your hyperbaric chamber, though.

Oh, I can't wait. Okay. So welcome to the podcast, Lauren and Michael Bostik.

Thank you for doing this, making the trip.

Yeah, I'm really pumped that we came here, man. The energy is so good in here, and you guys have a great studio. I'm so psyched. I'm sad because my wife, Sage, should have been with me because She was actually the one that turned me on to you guys because she-Hi, Sage. Hi, Sage.

We want you and Sage to come back on our show and do a him and her situation.

We'll do another one. We'll do another one.

Yeah, we totally would love to do that because Because she's like, See, babe, they're building a business together, too. And they talk about the real shit. We built a business together. She was a real estate agent. I was a human biologist, and we decided we'd start this longevity clinic. We don't find a lot of couples that... You guys met when you were like, 12. We don't find a lot of couples, first of all, that met when they're 12, and that have started and built businesses together that are just very real and authentic and visceral about that journey as a couple.

It's the most challenging thing ever, and you really have to know what you're signing up for. But I always say this, it's the most rewarding thing at the same time. And I think it can be simultaneously two things, but it is challenging.

Yeah, I agree with you. If you said, Would you do it all over again? I have to think about it, right?

Yeah, give me a few nights.

If you said, Are you happy that you did it? I'm like, I'm absolutely happy happy that we did it. Yes.

You know what I find to be more problematic in a relationship is sometimes you'll go to dinner with couples, say, I don't want to talk about business at this specific time, or these are the times when you can approach me with these things or not. I think both of our personalities are so type A. We want to be able to talk about all of it all the time. Sometimes we're not talking about the business, obviously, but I would find it to be very restrictive to not talk about something we're so passionate about all the time with our significant other. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I agree. But there's a notion that you can separate business from your personal life, and we found that to be completely false. If you have a great day at the office, you have a great day at home.

If you have a really crappy day at the office-I think, though, with what all three of us do, and I would imagine sage is like this, too, I think with everything we do, we're constantly working in wellness and relationship. It's like even in the morning, when you're doing your morning routine, you integrate work into it by meditating on the work. It all never shuts off. When you're an entrepreneur, you learn to meld it together. You said on our show, you said, When I am traveling, I still bring the breathwork. You still bring certain tools with you. I think you do that. We mix all the things together and make it all work for us throughout the day.

Yeah, because you come from not very similar backgrounds. I saw you guys on Ed Milet's podcast. I know he's been on yours a bunch of times. He's amazing. I'm a huge fan of Ed Milet. There was a story that he told from stage one time, and it just resonated so much with me. It was about his father, that was an alcoholic, and the question he kept asking him as a child, and he kept asking his dad if he was ever going to drink again. And his dad said, I don't know, son, but I know I'm not going to drink for one more day. And of all the stories he's told, that one stuck with me the most because it's such a metaphor for life to start thinking about things. I think too often we think way too far down the road. Where is this going to end up? And We're way too far down the road instead of just thinking about what's right in front of us and just trying to get through the day. And I know that health is just a sequence of habits and being consistent. But people that are really obese think, I'm never going to look like that guy, so I'm not going to try.

Well, you might not look like that tomorrow, but if you did these small things every day, you could get there. But what was interesting about the podcast that I thought when he was interviewing you guys was not only that you guys met at such a young age, but you were a bartender. You were a serial entrepreneur. And now you have this amazing podcast. And I would call you very impactful influencers. I mean, I sometimes don't like to use the term influencer, but I think you guys have built an amazing community. Can you talk a little bit about the journey from, for my audience that doesn't know you, from bartender to really building this community, not just being an influencer, but the community you guys built together?

Michael and I met when we were 12 on the playground.

I thought she was a substitute teacher. She came fully developed.

She was fully developed and you were small, right?

I was 12 years old, Gary. I hadn't even hit puberty, I don't think.

We had this chemistry at 12 years old, which is wild to look back on. It was really intense chemistry, not just romance, but also just friendship. We dated from 12 to 15 and separated when our separate ways, but always kept in touch and maintained that chemistry.

It would be one of those things in high school where we were never together and we'd be with other people, but then there'd be that one random night at a high school party. We'd both be at the same place, and then something would happen again, and then we'd not see each other for a while.

It was always a string of connection.

But the chances that you guys didn't go to different towns. We did. We did.

We left. I went to Arizona for a while. No, I left his ass. I made him chase me for nine years.

Good for you.

No, he had to work for it.

I went to the Harvard the desert, the University of Arizona. He studied biology. I was a human biologist.

I studied an anony.

No, he's joking.

Okay.

Yeah, I was joking. I was We went and-We went and really excited. We went and partied and ran around and then somehow reconnected over, I don't know, mutual friend's birthday party or something, ever since then we've been together. It was just this weird connection that we had since we were kids. I would always tell her that she was love of my life and all that, as cheesy as it sounds.

But since he was 12.

But for whatever reason.

Really? Yeah. That's so cool. We got back together, and I was a bartender, and Michael was, like you said, doing all different kinds of endeavors.

I've always worked for myself, and I was trying all these different things. Serial entrepreneur. Yeah. I was in aviation at one point. I was in real estate at one point. I had an agency. I was just always trying different things, some successful, some not successful, but always working for myself.

Started bartending, decided to launch the blog, The Skinny Confidential, while I was going to San Diego State. There was always something missing for me, and what I've realized now is that I was missing the entrepreneur piece. There wasn't a class or something at this time. There was nothing that could tell me you're an entrepreneur. But you felt it. I felt it, but I didn't know what it was. I didn't know how to articulate it because there's this before Instagram. I had no idea. And so I was like, what if I took what these sororities are doing and put it online because they're charging $800 a month. What if I could do this online? What if I could do it for free? What if I didn't just make it about me? What if I made it about other people's morning routines and tips and tricks? Fourteen years ago, I launched the blog. Again, no Instagram. It didn't exist.

Yeah, that's just blogs. That's all you had.

Just blogs. It launched as a resource, Skinny Confidential, and now 14 years later. How did it get out there?

How did people start following it?

I think that it was different. I think that it was disruptive. I started talking about Botox and boob implants and health and wellness and supermodels and all these different things, whereas at the time, it was just one person blogging about their nail polish or their dress they were wearing. It was like a different perspective.

I think it was very honest and in your face, and it wasn't afraid to tell the truth on topics that people found to be taboo.

This is Botox at this time. No one was even like, they weren't touching it. Now, I mean, everyone talks about that.

The Internet was very... A lot of the creators at the time, they called them bloggers at the time. It was very safe. Sterile. I would say vanilla in a lot of ways.

Boring.

And so I think she came in and also it was- Like the shock jock you heard.

It was just like, yeah, it was very honest. And seven years in, he was like, hey, we should start a podcast. And I was like, let's literally take exactly what I'm doing and talk on a mic. And that's where the him and her show came. And through After that, he saw space. He saw white space and started Dear Media.

We produce about 100 shows outside of ours. We have ours.

You're managing that many.

What I would say is the Trojan horse into media for us was audio, but really, I just call them shows now. They're audio, they're video, they're live. We invest in commerce businesses and run them through the platform that we've built.

Is that what's going on in this other room? Yes. There's a lot of people out there that seem very busy.

Yeah, This is the Texas office, about half the company is out here. Then we have some in LA, another office there, and then some in New York as well.

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And he was like, hey, what are you going to do with your life? And you brought up the fact that you wanted to start this blog. And he laughed in your face and told you you can never make any money doing that. And at the time, as a bartender, you got this... I forget the business that you said he started, but he was a very successful guy, very prominent.

The Inventor, one of the inventors of the airbag.

Okay, so the inventor of the airbag, right? So you couldn't have had a lot of people around you saying, this is how you do it. This is the path that you take. You didn't mentors, laying out the pathway for you, like a lot of people do now. And I think, especially for women, I mean, and then you bring your idea up and you share it with somebody who you know, you probably respect because successful as an older guy, and he actually just trashes your idea. And I want to go back to that moment because you didn't start with a lot of mentorship or a lot of guidance. It's not like you had a parent that brazed the trail for you with their business, and you took this business over. You just saw this opportunity, you went out and took it. I want to get back to where you grew it into the podcast and when you started to come together as a couple. But I want to talk a little bit about why you decided not to quit at that time, why you didn't take that advice?

It's funny. I look back on the bartending, and I remember using it to my advantage, meaning I was in this bar where it was all these very rich, successful men, and I used it as a moment to multitask. So yes, I was making money and building my blog on the side, but I also was using all of these guys in the bar as like, I'd get advice from this guy, and then this guy. I had another guy friend that was there that was like, You can't lead with your looks. You need to have an actual tangible business. Then I had this airbag guy giving me his advice. When you say I didn't have mentors, weirdly enough, looking back, I had all these little micro-mentors. And then I also at the same time was like learning to multitask, make drinks, be on stage. When you're a bartender, you're on stage. You better bet your ass that if you're giving the guy at the end not enough attention, he's not going to tip as well. So I'm learning how to manage all these men that are successful and make sure I'm getting the tips I need to get while also picking up experience from them and advice.

And so I think if you're in a spot right now, like I was when I was bartending, instead of thinking, I have nothing, and I don't know what I can do, you Choose the environment to your advantage and see how you can work it. Because truly, I learned more bartending and being on stage as a bartender than I learned in college. I can honestly say that. I went for four years and I learned so many skills. Multitasking, learning about different people, listening. That's a good one. Listening. Reading people's energy. Reading people's energy. What do they need? I just think that the mentors is in the micro moments. That moment right there to me with that guy who told me, I'm never going to make money blogging, was a moment that actually is pivotal because it propelled me to almost prove him wrong, not just him, but that energy wrong. I think that I knew that I needed to find a way out of there and make my own money and forge independence. The bartending to me, I always say this to people, it's a great way to build a business because I would go at night, and then during the day, I would build the business.

So when people are like, I can't. I work 9: 00 to five. My advice is, Stop working 9: 00 to 5: 00, go get a bartending job and do what you want to do on the side and do your side hustle and work towards that. There's a lot of ways to get creative. I think a really important way to be when you're starting a business is to be resourceful.

She's also not being so forthright in the sense that she had a day job teaching pure bar and Pilates. She would bartend at night. She would go to school, and then you would blog until two in the morning. And I watched her do this for years There's at a time when people said, what the hell is a blog? How are you going to make money? The term influencer and podcast, all this didn't even exist. And it was at a time, now fast forward, people make a huge living doing this thing. And obviously we've built a business on it. But this was also at a time when a lot of brands are like, why would I pay? How do I pay? There was not money in the space. You were lucky to get a banner ad for a month on your website, which now- But Gary, you know this, and this is being talked about more and more.

You have to create value before you ask for money.

I totally agree with that.

If you could do that and you're listening and you have an idea, create the value before you ask for the money. It's same as if you're an employer at a job. People who are like, I want to raise. I deserve a raise. That's not the way to go about it. Create the value, build the value, then ask for the raise.

The reason I bring that up is, I think if you look at the platform now, and obviously, you just came on the show, be able to speak to people like yourself and others. Sometimes people will come to us and say, Oh, I can't believe you had so and so on. I'm like, Yeah, but did you see it was episode 748?

Yeah, it wasn't the overnight success. People say that to us all the time. You blew up overnight.

I'm like, Well, it took 22 years, and then I blew up.

The brand, the Skinny Confidential, was started in 2009, and the podcast that we produced was started in 2016, and we didn't pull a single dollar out of that podcast until 2018. The reason I mentioned this is because for what we do and the people we speak to in the communities that we're building, I think sometimes people see the end result of something, I'm sure with you as well. And they're like, how do I do that quick? What's the hack? What was the moment? I'm like, well, it's just a lot of repetition, slow and steady over long periods of time with consistency and honestly, no way around it. A lot of hard work.

It's similar to a health journey, right?

Yeah. And you also have to love it. You have to have a passion for it or else you're just not going to stick with it. I totally agree. I mean, if you don't have a passion and a purpose for it, you really need to find something else. I feel like I would otherwise do what I do for free. I just somehow monetized it, which is the greatest blessing.

You could tell that you're so passionate about it. You could tell you wake up with a pep in your stuff. You love it.

But it's funny because- I really do.

Thank you. I can see it.

If I put the Dear Media executive hat on the moments when my eyes glaze over and I tune out of a conversation. Someone will come in and be like, I'm going to be the next Joe Rogan, and tell me how I make money doing this, and then I'll think about doing it. I'm like, first of all, if your first question is, I need to make money before I do it, and you're going to be someone who's at the top of the heap, I'm like, let's rewind. This is very competitive. It's hard. It's going to take a long time, likely before you see anything. And I think when people come to the realization like, oh, this is not just easy. And I can't just create a post or do a podcast or create a YouTube video and make millions of dollars. No, it's a lot of repetition.

I totally agree. And I think from my perspective, and I don't purport to know anywhere near as much as you guys do about the market, but I see the days of the just straight influencer are numbered. I feel like the people that are out there building communities of a like minded interest where they actually feed their community. You got to give without the expectation of receipt. Totally. Then some of your community is like, well, they'll buy a product or service that you're endorsing, and that's enough to keep the lights on and make a good living. But if you're not providing that value, then your audience is going to go somewhere else. Absolutely. It's not easy to create a community. So So for people that are building businesses, whether or not it's a blog or a social media empire, how did you guys go about creating the community that you've done? You come together. The Skinny Confidential has been around for over a decade, but now you guys have turned this into a business and you've built a true community. What's that transition like? Because I've heard you talk about how you correct people all the time and say, I'm not an influencer.

Don't just give me an affiliate link and I'm just going to push your product and ding it for money. I have to believe in it. It has to serve my community. What are some of those values? What are some of the steps that people can do, maybe outside of social media? If they're just building a business, what have you learned on this trajectory to say, how does a community just come about?

I think the first step to a community is that you have to stop focusing on what you don't have. If you have 10 followers, you need to serve those 10 followers like there's 100,000 of them. And they will go out and they will tell 10 people each. So now let's say you have 100 followers, then you need to serve the 100. Where people make a mistake right now is everyone wants more, more, more. You need to focus on what you have and tend to that. That's the really big fundamental difference that I see. I also think you need to stay really true to who and what you stand for. Michael and I have extreme clarity on what we stand for and what You can expect from our show is it is for people who want to be the best version of themselves. If you're going to come make fun of someone's morning routine, this isn't the show for you. We don't have a community that's trolling. That's not the community we have. We have people who are genuinely there to better their own lives, not to be me, not to be Michael, not to be Gary, to better their own life, little habits and takeaways.

We're very clear on who the audience is. I remember when I started the blog, I actually did a poster board. I named the girl that was reading the blog. I put how old she was. I put her nail polish color, what she's listening to on the way to work. I'm very in tune with who is listening. I think how you can do that is you can get in your DMs, you can talk to people, you can engage, do a lot of live events, do things where you're really listening to the consumer. When I meet someone who is is following along, I don't talk. I don't need to talk. They've heard me on a mic. I listen, I ask questions. I think it's really just trying to serve them in a really organic way.

The way that we think about everything is if you look at any of our businesses, especially like we're sitting in the Dear Media office, we don't have a marketing Department. There's no marketing team. We don't spend money on marketing. There's no head of CMO. There's nothing like The way that we've always thought about everything is if you serve an audience or a community with stuff that they find valuable, that then they can share to enhance other people's lives in their circles, that they will do the marketing in the word of mouth for you. And that is, to me, the most powerful form of marketing to begin with. And so I think people building a business, they've spent all this time and energy trying to figure out how to market something to build more sales or more revenue. It's like, if you just continue to serve your customer and your audience and make sure that they feel valued time and time again. And they're okay knowing that you're building a business and you're financially gaining them, but that you're also putting their interests first. And then the rest of the stuff takes care of itself. And I think Lauren and I are very self-aware knowing we're not for everybody.

We don't try to be for everybody. Gillian Michiels came on our show. I'm sure you've met and know. And she said something that I thought was so profound. Love her or hate her, you know exactly who she is. Yes. And that's how we try to do everything. We know that some people are going to tune in first time and say, why are these people talking like this? Why are they cussing? Why are they talking about these stuff? They're going to tune out and write a bad review and never come back. We're not trying to win that person over. We're trying to not only win, but keep the people that are there and resonate with the message that are being served with the content or the information that we're providing and enhancing their lives and leaving as a better version of themselves. And I think that's what's over the years, built the businesses.

I think another thing just to add to that that I think is so important is with With the person who's listening to me, they're the hero. I'm not the hero. I'm the guide. That's a very big difference. What I want is I want Sally in Virginia to go on our Mel Robbins' page. We shared Mel Robbins podcast today, and I want her sending Mel Robbins' podcast to all the friends. She's the influencer. I'm not the influencer. She's influencing her friends and family. She's the hero sharing the content. Why create content where the person who's receiving it feels like they're empowered to go tell all their friends and family? That's a really big difference than making Lauren Bostik the hero. I can only talk about myself for so long. You can only hear my morning routine for so long before. There has to be something bigger than the person behind it. I think that's a really important thing, or there's not longevity.

You just did our show, and I'm sure at times, sometimes people Some of the guests will be like, Why are these guys getting so... We asked you, What's your routine? What is your brand? Because we want to be the conduit. When Gary Brecker comes on the show, our audience is getting the specific things that make Gary Brecker's life great. Or It's just specific things. Of course, Lauren and I are going to-I noticed that.

It's going to be some selfish. I appreciated that. It's almost like I was almost talking to your audience, talking through you to the audience. That's exactly what we want. You could tell you were thinking, If somebody's watching this, what do they want to know? It's exactly what we want.

That's amazing.

What brand and what link? They want to know.

They want to know what it is. They want to know the details. I'm there as a conduit to get what they need.

I could have brought you on, and I could have selfishly just spent an hour talking about my back, and you for sure would have given me all this great advice.

I saved that for off air.

Yeah, we did go off air on it.

That was strategic.

To me, I think hosts of these properties make a mistake when they make it too much about them. Of course, there's going to be some selfish questions that are self-serving, but also we hope the audience gets value from. But the whole idea is what you highlighted, which is we're the conduits for you to talk through us to the audience so that they can extract whatever value they came from the show.

It's also not a gossip show. You're not going to get the latest gossip. That's not what the show is. So I think just being really aligned with who your consumer is is so important.

Obviously, you're living busy lives, and people ask me all the time, what's your morning routine? What are your top health tips? You guys have become major influencers in the wellness I see your content everywhere. It's on the same platforms that I'm on. I'm more about the scientist talking about methylation. And I feel like your advice is very, very practical because you're a couple, you're married, you're young, you're building a business. You also have a busy schedule. A lot of times people's big excuse is, I don't actually have time to either work out or do the things that I need to do to extend my lifespan, or I don't have the money to do it. I feel like you guys have given a lot of practical advice. But for my audience that might not be familiar with you because a lot of my audience is like the hyper-scientific community.

They've already turned to soft.

They want to know how the mitochondria-They're very smart.

Where's my reading glasses?

I look smarter here. Well, you don't wear readers, right?

No, because I use the red light.

Because he uses the red light. See, I tell you guys all the time.

Here's the problem. Because I'm not a human biologist and because I'm not a doctor, I will say things like, Hey, I went in the red light bed and healed my eyes. And people are like, You're a kook. You're giving false... You know what I mean? I'm like, No, it actually It actually works. Maybe I should stop talking because I don't have the credentials.

It does work. I mean, look, I don't have the credentials either. I'm not a physician. That's the biggest attack that I get. But I'm very vocal about saying I'm not a doctor.

I'm not licensed to practice medicine. I would say you have the credentials. I'm going to say you have the credentials. I think you have the credentials.

I would also say- You guys are very good for my. She's very complimentary.

I would also say it's fair to say that maybe you can't trust every doctor's credentials these days. Some of them, yes, some of them.

How about that?

Yeah, how about that? You don't say. But for Red Light, I mean, it really is. And look, you You don't need to go out and buy a $100,000 red light bed. There are tons of clinics all over the country. You can Google red light therapy, and there is probably a clinic within three miles of where you're sitting, unless you're rural, then it's 10 miles of where you're sitting. You can go in and use these things on a membership basis.

Or if you can't do at this moment, go outside first thing in the morning and look out as far as you can. Like you said, there's ways. My thing with everything is there's ways to get creative. If you're sitting around making excuses of why you can't execute on something, you have to go around it. You have to find another way in. I just think when people are like, I don't have time, then it's not maybe a priority. Well, I'll pick on this for a minute.

That's a good point. For a minute. I think when people say they don't have time, and we're not the first people to say this, we believe that just means it's not a priority to you. But if you look at our show, specifically over the course of roughly nine years, we did not have the resources or success that we have now in the beginning. And it's been an exploration of speaking to people like yourself and figuring out what we could do cost effectively at each stage of our life to enhance and improve. So of course, now maybe you get access to a better cold plunge or a red light bed. But in the early days, I remember-I would cold shower. We would be in our condo in a cold shower, or we'd be upstairs on the balcony trying to get some sunlight. Or we'd be in a gym. There's a lot of things that we did. Again, this goes back to the now, it's not the end product, but we're further along. And people say, easy for you to say. But I'm like, no, go back to the early stuff. We had none of this stuff.

I tell people to just take Tupperware containers and fill them full of water and put them in their freezer and then take them out in the morning and just drop them in your bathtub because then you're not even spending 20 bucks on ice at 711 three days a week.

Oh my God, that's so smart.

Yeah. Just take a Tupperware container, fill it with water.

We talked about breathwork on your freezer. I remember putting on Wim Hof's three-minute free YouTube video and doing that. I would do that for years.

Yeah. I tell people, breathwork, grounding, sunlight, and a cold punch, which you can make with Tupperware and ice. The nice thing about these big blocks of ice, Tupperware ice. I know I'm supposed to be asking you the question, but these big blocks of ice is that they last forever. If you're not using your tub every day, it will literally last for three days. You can have a cold punch for three days. What? And it costs you nothing. It will just stay in there. That's amazing. These big blocks of ice will melt very slow. It'll put it right in the low 50s, and you can get in there every day. By the way, while that one's melting, you just fill it up and put it back in your refrigerator.

Too bad you can't patent that. Like Gary Breca's ice cube setting.

I'm going to patent the Tupperware to make the ice. Oh, my I know. That's so smart. We'll do a collab on it.

Oh, my God. That's smart. We can do it in pink.

This is something for your younger audience. I'm sure you got young guys and girls that listen. What I would say is when you feel like when you don't have as many resources and you don't have as much time, but when you're younger, you have way more. Now that we're married and we have kids and we have businesses, it's even more compressed and we're squeezing in more. Yeah. So again, I think you just have to be smart with how you utilize your time and the things that you make a priority, where in the early days, when we were more resource dropped, we had so much more time, but we weren't as efficient with our time, if that makes sense.

Well, I remember you talked a lot about how in the beginning, of course, everybody wants the celebrities and the big names and the influence on their podcast to help them grow their platform. But when you're starting out, you're not getting those people. But you said, I would literally message a thousand people a day. And five would say yes.

And then you take the five, and then you get another five off those five, and then you take the 10, and you get another. It's literally Everybody reps at the gym like weights, and anyone can do it. I am not special. Anyone at home can put in the work. It just requires a lot of patience, discipline, and time.

We're having a guest on tomorrow that we've been messaging for nine years.

No. Yeah, nine years.

You've got to tell me you're this guy. You'll tell me after. But honestly, I actually am going to go back to you.

I will air this after that guest.

We probably messaged you.

I want to see when I messaged you. For two or three years.

You did, yeah.

Let me see when I messaged you. I want to see.

I think this is so important to talk about. Two years, I think. Because we have a bigger platform now.

Two years.

But I wasn't ignoring you guys.

Just for the record, I was- We understand. There's schedules, there's this, there's that. We totally understand. The point is, is you have to be persistent.

But the point- You win.

I'm a pest. I'm a pest. I will literally be like, The book's coming out. Time to come on. But by the way- You never give up.

To be honest, this particular guest, I understand why you have to work for it, and I understand why it took time, and I understand why this person is thoughtful about what properties they would go on, and they've earned that right based on the things that they've accomplished in life. And so we don't take that as, oh, we're offended or we're defeated or we're going to give up. It's just like, okay, not the right time. We'll get them one day. And I think for anyone, whether it's a business or they're pursuing a love interest or whatever, it's like you have to have that tenacity and that patience to go after something like that, because a lot of people will take that no or take that naysay, and they'll just be completely defeated. Yeah. And that doesn't serve you.

And as a couple, when you guys began to... Because you probably have very different ways of building a business. Completely different. Although you both sound like grinders.

We are grinders.

That is true. I can just tell a serial entrepreneur is not afraid of hard work, and someone that was a bartender and told no, there was a female starting a blog when there was no internet, is also a grinder. Those two have to sometimes come to a head, but you still have to the business going forward. Is it because of a shared common vision? Is it a shared purpose? Because I'll tell you what works for my wife and I, but I'm always curious when I talk to other and I would consider you guys a power couple. You're obviously both very fit. Ed Milet called you the most attractive couple on the internet. He's too kind. How? He did. Right to your face. I actually watch a podcast. He's like, This is the most attractive couple in social media. He said it a bunch of times, which you guys are a very attractive couple.

Thank you.

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Mike, the more there's to potentially-I'll let you go first. Oh, here she goes. We're going to get I'm getting dirt now.

I think the common denominator, and after interviewing tons of different people with Michael and I, and I don't think I've ever told you this, is that we both expect a lot out of life. A lot. We expect a lot. That common denominator has been pivotal as we gain success and momentum because we're both on the same treadmill. Even though I'm this side of the brain and he's that side of the brain, we know to stay in our own lanes, but we're still on the same treadmill. That has been something that I think is unique. I think a lot of, and Michael says this all the time, one wants to build a mom and pop cafe down the street, and the other wants to build an empire. It's misaligned. When I say one person, you both want to do an ice cream shop, one person wants to franchise them across the country, one person wants to have the community ice cream shop. And by the way, not one is better than the other. We just both have the same expectation for ourselves out of life. We're constantly striving to be better, fitter, faster, quicker without competing with anything, just in our own lives, the best version.

But as far as working together, I think we've really defined our lanes. Yes. How do you and your wife work together?

Same thing. There was actually a book called Rocketfuel. It's a great book. Yeah. That book- Orange Cover? Yeah, Orange Cover. I forget the author's name, but he deserves credit. But he wrote another book, too. Rocketfuel came in at a time in our business evolution and our relationship evolution where it could not have been more perfect because I was the visionary, and she was what the book refers to as the integrator. As the visionary, to my own detriment, and just to be self-loathing here for a second, I just thought, It's all because of me. Everybody's coming in the door because of me. I'm the voice. I'm the one that's bringing in the revenue. I should be able to decide what the direction is of the company. It should be my vision. It should be my choice. She's like, You have 15 ideas a week. One of them works, and I make sure that it works. I make sure that we don't go broke and that we pay our bills on time and that we don't show up to the office and it's locked. What's the bill? I'm like, Shit, I never really thought about that. She's like, You ever know what?

The key works every day when you get to the office. That's because I make sure that the lease is paid on time.

I forgot the keys at home, so he's driving me the keys.

I'm terrible. I've driven to work without pants before.

She drives without a license and without a credit card.

I run out of gas five times. I'm you.

I run out of gas twice in the same day. What? I was so furious at stage one day.

I'm distracted with my vision. I'm distracted. How much capacity do you have? I can't be filling the car with gas.

Exactly. Dude, true story. I got so upset in the office one day. I was like, You know what? I'm leaving. I'm just going to fly up and spend the weekend with my parents. I storm out of the office, I get in the car, and I'm on my way to the airport, and I literally run out of gas in the middle of an intersection. We would be fucked if we were married. We would be fucked. Which, of course, I also blamed on my wife. I walked to this gas station, I get a gallon of gas, I get back to the car. I fill the car with one gallon of gas, but I forget that I've only put a gallon of gas in it. This is me. In my mind, I actually filled the car. This is me. Then I'm driving back to the office, and on the way to the office, I run out of gas again. I call Sage, and she's just laughing at me, which just totally exploded my head.

But I literally ran out gas twice. At least you go and get the gas at the gas station. I call Michael to bring you the gas. She blames me. Then I say, Why wouldn't you fill the car with gas?

She blames me like it's my fault that she drove a car with gas.

But you get like that with your vision. You get so into it, and it's so romantic. You don't have the capacity to even do anything.

Here's my honest response.

I get it. But that book was a good one. Okay, I got to read it.

My honest response about this is, and you picked up on it, we're both very type A. We're both used to running our own business. I think a common misconception is we do the show together. I run Dear Media, she runs her business, and then we come together and do the show. But we have completely separate teams and separate roles. Which helps. But again, we're all partnered and everything, so it gets a little messy, obviously, because we're married and everything's equal parts. But I am personally someone that needs to be held to account and needs to be checked. And if not, it could very quickly become the Michael show. It would not be good for me to date or be married to somebody who is more submissive. I was like, yeah, whatever you want, because again, I'll run off the rails. And then, again, there's a million ideas, and it's like, well, what are you focusing on? And I think we hold each other to that account. And then also, when Lauren says we don't compete, we don't externally compete with outside people. We're very focused in our own world, but we both expect a lot from each other and want to be better versions of ourselves tomorrow than we were today.

The work is in a masochistic way. It's never done, and we're never satisfied. And it's not because there's a certain number.

I love Ed, my let's says blissfully dissatisfied.

Yeah, blissfully dissatisfied. That's so true.

You get one shot at life, and I think we both want to see how far we can push it. Not in a way where you're sacrificing health or family or a relationship or doing I'm not putting things out of integrity, but let's not settle. Let's figure out how much further. And I think sometimes a lot of couples will get in a situation where one of the partners wants the other one to settle or stop pursuing something. And I actually don't think that's healthy.

You see one wants to lose weight and they start lifting and the other one doesn't. That's a misalignment.

Yeah, so true.

So we check each other.

That book, that Rocketfuel book, was the visionary and the integrator. Basically, when I was done reading it, I realized it You're so right. All of these ideas and all of this dust that I'm stirring up is actually useless unless it gets practically put in.

I need to read that book immediately.

It's so good. It will change the way that you look at him and he looks at you. Potentially the way that you look at each other. But on the flip side-It literally changed everything for us.

I'm more like maybe logistics, ops-based. But if you don't have the big vision and the person that wants to do all these creative things, then what are you doing? She felt the same way.

It's a balance. It made her realize how important it was. Because if you have a business, people have to walk through the door. The phone's got to ring, right? And I can make that happen. But behind the scenes, bills have to get paid, and payroll has got to be made, and leases got to be done. Gas has got to be done. And the integrator gas has got to go in the tank. And the integrator doesn't get the credit. The visionary gets the credit because they're the one that's out there. And then I started to actually empathize. When we sold our business, one of the interesting things, they did this done in Brad Street on us. And I remember when the report came back, they said, we have like, Fortune 500 companies in business for 25 years that do not have the credit that you have. Every single reference, from your landlord to your vendors to every account that you had 30, 60, 90 day rotating credit on, you paid them all off.

That's amazing. And that's your wife.

That's my wife. That is all my wife. That is just sage.

You were like, what? Who's that? Who's the landlord?

I didn't even know we had it.

By the way, I drove here, didn't even look at my gas. I didn't even look at the gas today. I have no idea if we have gas in the car. I didn't even look.

Yeah, that's me, too. We flew to Bahrain last week, and we went to meet with the of Bahrain.

Where's Bahrain?

It's off the Coast of Saudi Arabia. So we flew to London.

Geography is not my strong suit. Yeah.

So it's in the Middle East. So we're going to meet the king of Bahrain. But we arrive at 12: 30 in the morning, and we're meeting with him at 8: 30 in the morning. It's a totally true story. At 8: 30 in the morning, the desk calls and says, Hey, His Majesty's car is here to pick you up. And I'm like, Great. So I've got my shirt on, which I just pressed, and I had my suit code on and socks. Then I went to my suitcase to get pants. And I was like, I forgot to pack pants. She's like, You forgot to pack pants?

What did you wear on the flight?

Sweat pants, the ultimate human sweat pants. And I was like, Babe, I am not going to meet the king of Bahrain in ultimate human sweat pants. And so I was like, what are we going to do? Because we have to be at the palace in less than 30 minutes, and his driver's downstairs. So I ran downstairs to the... We were at the Four Seasons in Bahrain, and I was like, is there a bin store anywhere that I can get a pair of pants. They said, yeah, there's one 15 minutes away, but it doesn't open until 10: 00 in the morning. It's 8: 30. I ran into the spa and found a men's bathing suit cover up, and it was these linen, fully see-through pants. Like, I'm very see-through, and I had black underwear on, and I had black compression socks up to my knees. I went and met the king of Bahrain in see-through.

Gary, you would be so surprised how well I understand the story.

She was like, How could you forget pants?

It's very helpful for me because I'm like, Am I oblivious? People have called me oblivious, distracted. I'm just focused on what I have to do in this world, and I can't worry about pants. I get it. I get it. I can't worry about pants. I'm sorry.

I bet the king looked and was like, Gary's got a pretty cool outfit going on. Let's see if I can get someone there.

If you look on my Instagram and you look at the pictures, I have a very nice black jacket and a black button up shirt on.

And then I have straight wrinkled up Lincoln. You should write it down. Write this on Instagram. Put the post up again and say, I just want to give you the content.

I just didn't want the king of all right to read it.

The king was probably like, I love your pants. Where did you get your pants?

They're very wrinkly. What was the king wearing?

Was he wearing like a...

Well, his son, the Crown Prince, who drove us there, was in the traditional Kandora, but he was super casual. He was just in a shirt and regular pair of pants. Super easy to I talked to. Amazing human and actually very funny. I think there's a lot of misconceptions, not to derail the show, but a lot of misconception about what goes on in the Middle East, that it's based on oppression, and it's really based on respect. I've spent a lot of time there and really learned to just love those people. There's a quorum over there, and their level of education. Everybody speaks English. It's so cool. It's just an unbelievable part of the world. We better pay attention to what's going on over there because they're going to sprint by us. They are investing.

There's a lot of innovation happening.

Innovation, technology, artificial intelligence. They want the best of health care. They want the biggest, brightest minds. They're way more forward-thinking than you might think. There's something to be said about dictatorships when they truly have the best interests of their people at heart. These monarchies, these families truly deeply care about their people.

When he flies you over there, are you guys talking health?

Yes.

He wants to know how to be healthier, faster, stronger?

He wants to know everything about longevity, anti-aging, bio optimization.

How do you recommend supplements over there?

They have a whole team of doctors, and they came to the meeting.

You just said what you needed.

And they help get it. They pull the bloodwork. They look at the genes that I like to look at, and then I sit down with them and say, first of all, they know I'm not a physician, but I meet with his team of physicians, and we go through everything, and he puts them on that protocol. That is so cool. I did it for his son, and now his son's a two-time world champion in this really difficult horse race. His name's Sheik Nasser.

That is so cool. We need to do our cheek swap.

All these young Shakes are crazy athletes over there. Ultra-triathlon-ers, ultra-distanced marathoners. Driven. Cycling I'm super driven.

I want to do my cheek swap.

We're going to do the cheek swap.

One of the things that, again, we're not the experts. We bring on the experts. But I think one thing that we've tried to do with our show for years is, ignite the interest of health in this country. And I'm excited because-And I really want to touch on that. I think conversations that were happening in small niche communities are becoming wider now and broader and things that people would look at you like you were crazy for saying in the past. You're doing a Cloveland, you're doing a science, you're doing red light, you're doing this. But people are like, what? These fringe things that you call pseudoscience, I think is now being taken very seriously. So we're super excited about some of the stuff that's happening finally here, because to your point, there's been serious issues in this country.

Oh, totally. I think the Maha movement is going to be the greatest thing that ever happened to this country, because for the first time, some of these influencers can really affect public policy. I had Kelly Means on my podcast, and he's... I don't fanboy over a lot of people, but he and Casey. So cool. Stanford train surgeon, Harvard-educated lobbyist, and both had this epiphany around the same time. I just think, Tucker Carlson said it, too. He's like, These people are going to change the world. I believe that. I'm so excited to be with them on this Maha movement. But I want to talk a little bit about that, too, because your journey didn't start as a health and wellness journey, per se, right? No. I believe that a large part of it has morphed into a health and wellness journey. What are some of the things? What were some of the tipping points for you along that journey? You eat a bowl of steak. I eat a bowl of ground beef every day.

I love that. I eat a bowl of ground beef every day. It's actually ground liver.

Oh, it's the organ blend.

It's the ancestral blend from Force of Nature, and it grew my hair because I'm so into beauty. I believe that. It grew my hair. My hair was up to here. It completely grew my hair. I gained 60 pounds with my first pregnancy. I had a whole insulin resistance journey, which weight lifting helped so much. I lost 60 pounds. I got pregnant again. I gained 60 pounds. The thing that got it off was weight lifting and eating so much meat and eggs and raw milk. I just started eating this bowl of all these different organs online, and people were like, wait, what? I'm like, wait, my nails have never been thicker. My hair has never been longer. I've never had more energy. I'm satisfied. I'm losing weight. The aminos in it are just so incredible.

Absolutely.

I just started talking about these organs. People were like, at first it was almost like It couldn't believe it. If you try the ancestral blend from force of nature, you can't taste it.

The ancestral blend is the ground beef with the organ meat because the straight organ meats, I can't do either.

I could do anything. You want to make me a liver right now? I'll eat it. Really?

Because carnival And he comes to my house all the time. I love Paul, by the way, and he spends a lot of time with me when he's in Miami. And he makes me take the raw liver, and I'll just throw it to the back of my mouth. But it tastes very metallic. I will do it because I know about the benefits, but I just don't think that I would... If If I had a choice, I would be like, Can I just get a bowl of liver?

I make an in and out bowl where I'll do a special sauce, and I'll put chopped tomato and lettuce, and I'll make that bowl. Then the next day, I'll do raw cheese with raw honey on top. And the next day, I'll do a Fiesta bowl with a little bit of Ciatte chips. You can make the bowl really interesting, and that really helped me lose so much weight. So amazing. It's a huge bowl of meat. That's been something that's really life-changing. Weight lifting upping my protein. Then the little tools, the cold plunge, the sauna, the red light. All those things have been morning sunlight.

You touched on it on our show. It's like, we don't want to be talking about all these things with all these great people on the show and then not practicing what we preach. Yes. And there's a journey where we realize right around the time we had our first kids, we are not the healthiest versions of ourselves. We're not doing the things that we should be doing. And we have access to people like yourself and others that are sharing this information Why not implement it at a greater level and also not just do ourselves, but be an example? We had this great guy come on the podcast, and he said, Stop being the tugboat and be the lighthouse. He's like, Stop trying to tell people what to do and drag them a long time. Just go do it, and you'll inspire other people. I think, one, we want to be an example to each other, but two, for our kids and our families and then the other people. And we also don't want to be phoneies where we're having all these great voices on and then eating like shit and not taking care of ourselves and not sleeping right.

We always say we're lucky to get the information maybe a little bit before the audience, but we're also getting it at the same time. We just record the episode and release it later, but we're learning the same way the people listening are learning.

I will tell you, though, we have a lot of different health professionals on, and it's a lot of the same information. Having you on was really interesting because I realized the puzzle piece that's missing for me now and why I want to have you on like 100 times is that the nutrient deficient part is I've not talked about enough, and I've never had someone come on the show and talk about it like you. Really? Wow. Which is scary to think about. That's my next layer of what I'm doing. I'm interested in what nutrients am I missing and how can I figure that out.

We should do the test, and we should come back on and go I drew it on your show. I would love to do that. Why I think it's so important what you're doing is if you just pull the data set of call it 700 episodes, and we're saying this is the first time someone's coming on talking about nutrient efficiency.

I'm just talking about the spectrum of conversations, and you know how important that information is to people. And you could get all of these people talking about weights and meat and cold plunge. But if you don't have that piece of it, I think that's where a lot of frustration is happening with people. They're like, I'm doing all the things. I'm cold plinging, I'm eating, I'm solid. Why am I not getting the results I wanted?

Why am I not having the results these people are having? And I think you're right. People miss the foundation. We talked about the things that are essential. The word essential means necessary for essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, essential nutrients. It's funny. I spoke at an Osteostrong conference not too long ago, which Osteostrong is a franchise that's basically centered around increasing bone density. There are these centers that you can go and you can apply loads to your bone and actually take you from being osteopenic or osteoporotic to actually having normal bone density. It's a phenomenal concept. But I was so shocked at how many people in that sphere were still on just a pure calcium bandwagon. People are deficient in calcium. Listen, nursing homes all over the country are just full of elderly men and women that have been taking calcium supplements for 25 years, and they're still osteopenic and osteoporotic. Why? Because bones are not calcium. Calcium combines with phosphorus to make hydroxyapotite. Bones are hydroxyapotite. In order for calcium and phosphorus to combine and make hydroxyapotite, you need 12 minerals. You You need boron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, silica.

Is that in the salt you told me about?

That's in the salt that I told you about. You deplete those nutrients, you can't form bone, and now you have weak bone. Somebody tell you you have osteopenia or osteoporosis. No, you don't. You have a nutrient deficiency in these 12 minerals. What if you could wake up each morning full of energy, focused and ready to conquer anything life throws at you? It's not just a dream, guys. It's the reality waiting for you in the ultimate morning challenge. I'm inviting you to join my live three-day free guided challenge to reprogram your mornings for peak performance. It's completely free. Over these three days, I'll show you how to harness simple science-back rituals like hydration, grounding, breathwork, and more that are going to transform your mornings and truly transform your life. These are the exact methods I've used to help CEOs, pro athletes, and thousands of others reclaim their energy, their focus, and their momentum. The challenge kicks off February 19th, and it's completely free like all of my challenges. I'm inviting some of my top celebrity guests on. You'll have direct communication with them. Join now at morning. Theultimatehuman. Com. That's morning. Theultimatehuman. Com, and let's change our lives together.

Now, let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast.

My four-year-old daughter asked me every morning for minerals.

Yeah.

Because I started giving her- Inherently, she- She knows. That's so good. I love that. She asked me for Keenton Minerals every morning. She goes, Mom, minerals.

Keenton is amazing.

Can you believe she, at four years old, goes like this, ready for me to give it to her? Because she must intuitively know.

She knows how her body feels.

That's great. She put salt under her tongue.

Does she really? Good for her. I want to talk a little bit about your kids' health journey, too, because so many parents, I have a lot of parents that watch my show, too. One of the best episodes I ever had, I had my seven and 10-year-old nieces on. So cute. I did a show with them, and it just exploded because they talked about their food choices. How do you influence this in your kids? What's a typical day for you as a mom feeding your kids? I get so- Or you feeding the kids?

Yeah, both of us. She's done it. We both do. We get very, very, very creative. I'll give you an example. We were feeding our kids eggs, three eggs every morning with a little bit of sourdough, super minimal ingredients. There's no- Sourdough is amazing. There's no enriched fortified or enriched. Sourdo's alive. Sourdo's alive. We were doing that with grass-fed butter, and I noticed they were getting fatigued on that. But you got to get really creative with kids. I started doing... This recipe has changed my life. Three eggs, one banana mixed with a little bit of oatmeal. It has to be like the oatmeal that has no pesticides, like organic, plain, nothing else added oatmeal. You mix it together, it makes pancakes. So they're getting protein. The little sweetness is from the banana, and they are eating these pancakes all the time. What I've realized with kids is you have to rebrand everything. So I'll say, Okay, we're going to have chocolate with strawberries. But what it actually is, is strawberries with a little bit of longevity mushrooms from Symbiotica. Everything is a constant moment to rebrand. I'll be like, okay, we're going to have chocolate milk, and it's raw milk with cacao.

At night, we'll say we're having vitamin water, and it's like thorn magnesium.

We give them thorn magnesium. They have cookie water. Cookie water is electrolyte water that has no sugar in it. It's like coconut water. Everything is a rebrand with kids.

I do that with the Doritos and the masa chips. Do you ever take the masa chips? I love chips.

You can even switch bags. If you want to get really creative, switch bags.

Oh, wow.

Give them the Doritos. I'm fucked up. Have you tried the Dump the masas into the Dorito bag?

That is gangster. Oh, yeah.

Have you tried the Vandy chips?

Yes, they're so good. I have both flavors. Those are dangerous.

I think a little lie is fine for kids.

A little lie is fine for kids. You know what I'm going to do?

I've already thought about it in my head. I'm going to go home and go, who wants lemonade? Perfect Amino's Lemon Lime.

Who wants Doritos?

Lemon Lime, Perfect Amino.

Here they are, the masas.

The Aminos, they're going to drink it as Lemonade.

What's funny, though, about kids, and you know this, if you don't have junk in the house, they don't want the junk. You know what I mean? If it's chips, it's masa chips. It's a healthier alternative.

There's no junk food around. We're not eat junk ourselves.

We're not perfect.

No parent is. I'm not perfect either. Listen, my kids I've had sugar before, lots of sugar, and it's a fucking nightmare. They act like a completely different child. Oh, yeah. I can tell you right now on Christmas morning, we had cinnamon bonds, we had whatever. It was like dealing with a different body in my house. I can't believe it. So I just try to do my best. I'm not perfect. I just try to modify constantly.

And I think most moms and dads want to hear that, right? It's a work in progress. And also optimal health for your kids is not the total absence of the bad, but it's just the presence of the chocolate. That's the other thing. I walked into my room today at the Four Seasons, and there was a Norman Love chocolate on a little thing with a thank you note. I ate the Norman Love chocolate. People were like, What? You ate the Norman Love chocolate? Yeah, it's the biggest bar. Yeah, I ate the Norman Love chocolate. It was this big, and it was delicious. This, by the way.

But then you had your brownie protein bar.

Yeah, but I'll have a brownie protein bar and a grass-fed steak, and I don't eat chocolate all the time, and I'm not shoveling junk in. If I'm at my five-year-old niece's birthday party, I'm not the guy. It's like, I'm not eating that piece of cake.

We're the same. I love Paul. He's a mutual friend. I'm not going to be that militant.

Oh, he's militant. But I respect it. He was at my Thanksgiving dinner. He was militant.

I respect it. What did he do at Thanksgiving? I can't wait to hear.

Three pieces of turkey. Okay. And apple slices.

What about no honey?

No, he didn't have any honey. He was very kind enough to eat them very slowly. Paul, if you're watching this, I love you, brother. We love him, too. He's great. I love him. But the funny thing was the second time he stayed with me. When he comes to Miami, he stays with me. I absolutely love having him over. We see eye to eye on so many things. My whole family is at the dinner table. It was sage's birthday, right? Yeah, It was my wife's birthday. She loves carrot cake. We had a carrot cake in the kitchen, and they put the candles in it. My whole family sitting at the table, and they're coming out with the carrot cake singing Happy birthday, and he gets off the elevator and comes into my unit. My son sees him. And he goes, Dude, I ran smack dab in the Paul Saladino carrying a carrot cake.

He's fine, though. He doesn't care.

Oh, he's totally fine.

That's another way to get organ is by his meat sticks. I eat those every day. 60 grams of protein.

I eat his meat sticks, dude. We meet in the kitchen every morning at my house, and we make a raw Buffalo milk with... And I'll tell you what, it's delicious. We break his capsules open. We'll put them in the raw Buffalo milk. We'll stir it up with a little bit of honey or sometimes some raw maple syrup. That's as good as any Benajuris you've ever had.

Where are you getting raw Buffalo milk?

I get it from a place called Southwest Ranches in Miami. You're going to get your Buffalo milk. So I get raw Buffalo milk. I get raw kefir. I don't have a Buffalo dealer.

It is so- That sounds amazing.

Raw Buffalo milk and a really good-Tiktok is going to love this. Expresso mixed together. Dude, that's your new crack. It is the most delicious coffee you'll ever have in your life.

I want an invite from Paul and Gary and Sage to have a Buffalo milk raw- Buffalo milk latte. Honey Espresso.

At my place..

That sounds delicious.

We'll meet a lot of these characters, and I love many of them. But what I say all the time, especially the audience, I don't want to hear about EMFs in the headphones from somebody if they're not doing- You just bought an EMF cordless headphones. If you're not going to the gym and you're not eating Whole Foods and you're not sleeping right and you're not doing the basics and you're telling me about my EMFs, I'm like...

It was like the morbidly obese people with the mask driving in the car by themselves. And you're like, seriously, the least of your worries is COVID, my friend. Yeah.

If you can't do 20 pushups, I don't want to hear about EMFs.

Right. Exactly. I think that is a really... Yes, it's a really... Like they say, never I trust a skinny chef.

Paul lives it, eats it, breathes it.

He's the real deal.

I will say Paul is as legit as he gets.

We love you, Paul. We love you, Paul. Where's my Buffalo milk?

Where's my Buffalo milk?

But that's the criteria. You can move on to the fringe things once you've satisfied the bases. But until then, I'm like, okay, I got to maybe be a little hesitant on some of the advice.

Yeah, if you're telling me the EMFs are going to kill me, but I've had a few of those interviews.

You did get those headphones, though.

No, but I'll have some people sometimes come on the show and they pick these obscure subjects, and I'm like, Listen, if you can't bicep curl a 15-pound weight, I don't want to hear about any of these.

He used to put his iPad on his penis with his headphones on, and I was like, No, no, no, no, Yeah. We can't put the iPad on the penis.

I still have intentions for that.

We got to get an EMF protector blanket, and you got to-Yeah.

You can get the... What is it? Lambs makes the-It's an EMF condom.

It's an EMF condom.

Lambs, underwear. I'm buying you some of that. I'm just kidding.

It's not the shaft.

Who wears condoms? That's crazy.

It's the balls that you need to protect. The sperm's in the balls. We really just took a nose dive. We took a nose dive like 15 seconds into your podcast, too. What it was? Bals. Bals. All right, we're 15 seconds in.

I like to lure them in and now be like, Wait, what did that guy just say?

No, but this is amazing. So your advice, quick advice to couples starting a business and going into business together.

My advice would define your roles, define expectation, define one year, five year, 10 year. What does it look like? Where you want to be headed and make sure you're pushing the same bolster up the same hill. That's important.

I would say the high level is align on the ultimate vision. And again, I give that example of one person wants to build the ice cream shop, one person wants to build the ice cream shop that franchises to across the country. I think sometimes people say they want to do a business and they don't agree on the scale. And then in addition to that, I would say I don't believe that you can have an equal decision making process in any... Meaning, I don't like when there's co-CEOs and there's got to be one person that owns one specific lane. In our world, when it comes to the business finances, I'll typically have the final say just because maybe I'm more skilled at numbers. When it comes to the creative vision, packaging- You tried to get involved in the cover art yesterday.

I was like, no, get out.

I think we really to say, okay, when it comes to who needs to be the final decision maker on this, and especially for the team, too, they're looking to when it comes to this specific lane, we define that.

Don't talk about quick books during sex.

The other thing I think I would... Don't talk about Quickbooks during sex.

He has talked about Quickbooks in the bedroom. The last thing I would say- No. I'm doing my red light therapy.

Can you shut the hell up? No, but I think the last thing is that you have to understand that it is a lot of turmoil. And if you're not okay with that and you want it to be roses all the time when you're trying to... If you run a business with anyone- There's chaos. There's chaos. Whether it's your partner or your Workers. Running a business is hard. It's not easy. And so there's going to be moments, and you want somebody that's going to be there in the trenches with you when it gets hard. And you can't do this thing where a couple is like, I don't want it to affect the relationship. It's going to affect the relationship. You just have to agree that you're going to work through it together. Yes. There's no way that it's never going. It's hard. It's difficult.

My wife and I have this saying, no light between us. And at the end of the day, we always put the relationship first. And since we've on that, not allowing any light between us. Because you find that sometimes people, partners, projects will start to come between you. And even people in your sphere will start to notice they have your ear but don't have her ear, and they'll try to create some distance here. Or they have her ear and they don't have yours, and they'll start to try to put a little divide between you. You're right. We have this. Some people are a lot more effective at it than others. There's been times in the past where one of us has really bought in to a partner or person, and that person caused a lot of friction and damage. When we realized, you know what? They had their own interests at heart, not ours. We developed this saying, no light between us. Essentially, we've done that, we really have been militant about making decisions together.

I think that's beautiful. At the end of the day, when you're 90 years old, you want to be holding hands with her. So true. If you really look at that, it's not worth it to disrupt that.

Your spouse is your rider.

We always say, listen, we're very motivated to build these ventures together and build big things. But we already feel like we're playing with house money in the sense that we're very happy in our relationship and with our family. And if you were to strip everything away and still it was just us with our kids and each other. I already feel like we've already won. And so the rest of the stuff is like, you wouldn't... When you go to a casino, let me say playing with house money, you don't risk what's already... You don't risk the winning or the base.

Right. Which you came with.

Which you came with. It's already been built for us. It's just your winning. Yeah. If it ever starts to get to a place where business is toxic to our family and our well-being and our relationship, it's not worth it.

I would like you to go date someone for a few months that's submissive to see how that goes. Bullshit. Just go see. Just to have a little compare and contrast therapy. Compare and contrast therapy.

A little cold plunge sauna.

But that's the other thing. I say all the time, I'm like, Listen, you find another guy that can deal- I would want to go see what it's like out there on the streets. You find another guy to deal with your bullshit? I'll get to see. She got a bite.

I don't think they exist.

She always says, Oh, what happened? I'm like, Listen, you find that guy? God bless him. Any takers?

You know what's crazy?

@laurenvostik on Instagram.

Oh, boy. There they come. Dms are open. Our greatest moments together. We just had the greatest Christmas. Last night, we actually had my mom's 79th birthday. The last thing my wife and I said when we went to bed with each other was, We've had The last three of the greatest nights of our life have just been exactly that. Just us and the family. We all put on wigs and did stupid shit around the house. Our greatest moments are in a one bedroom log cabin in Colorado, in a really small town in Colorado, with a wood burning stove. No electricity. It's just a solar-fed electricity. Completely off the grid. We have this big, beautiful, fancy place in Miami with all of This is amazing. And it's just like when we unplug and it's just us, that's when it's the best.

I'd like a Colorado house like that.

Okay. He's like, Sure. But to be a little bit sappy for a moment, and I think doing what we all do for a living, you can sometimes get lost thinking that that's all real. Going to these places and meeting these incredible people and having these big conversations and all that. And I think we are good at coming back to each other and saying, we're just living a normal life with our family and our kids in a normal relationship. We met when we were 12, all these things. And you got to be able to separate some of that. I think sometimes people build big businesses or big brands or big personalities.

They get drunk on cool.

They get drunk on that, and they get drunk on the press clippings and that, and they think that there's now this new version of themselves. We really try to stay away from that and acknowledge knowledge that we're fortunate to be in some of those situations and around some of those people and conversations. But at the end of it, it's like, this is the core, and that's what we protect.

Amen. That's so good. Well, I wind down every podcast by asking my guests the same question. I'm going to ask each of you guys this question. There's no right or wrong answer, by the way. And what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

I think to be an ultimate human, you're actualizing your real full potential every single day, and you're not settling, and that you're becoming a better version of yourself every day, and that you're doing things not only to help yourself, but to help others, so they can be the best versions of themselves. I think if anything, take financial success or business What he says out of it, if you're adding value to the world and you're improving yourself, to me, that's the ultimate human. That could be in any way. It could be the best parent, it could be the best husband, it could be the best whatever. But to me, that is the definition of a successful life.

That's exactly my exact answer. I think you might have pulled that answer that was mine from a different podcast. I actually think, go pull the clip. Lewis house School of Greatness asked a similar question, and that's how I answered it.

We're going to go pull that tape and compare it.

And then he just rebranded it. Because that could be spousal plagiarism.

We did that episode in maybe 2020. If you go back to 2016, I think you pulled that clip from the thing that I said.

You guys sound just like sage. He did copy me. I wish sage was here. She's got to come and be in the podcast.

She can come on the podcast next time.

Now you got to say something different, though.

Now the pressure is really on you. My thing is, expect the most that you can expect out of life. Squeeze the orange to the fullest. You are the creator of your life. You have the power to create your own life. Your thoughts predict your future. I just think when you understand that no one else is going to do it for you, it's really empowering. That's my message. It's like, how do I be the best version of myself that Michael copied and inspire other people to do that.

That was amazing. Whether the answer was plagiarized or not, I thought it was actually very good. I thought your-Thanks. Original answer was very good, too.

So, Gary, don't you feel like it really just comes down? It's the simple things.

It's so true.

We overcomplicate everything.

Yes.

Even going back to the conversation we had, it's the essentials. Even if you take the essentials of In life, I think we're living in a time when there's so much information and people are so confused and they're getting caught in the clouds and they're not just grounding on the simple things. Yeah.

You know what is amazing? We talked earlier on your podcast about how sometimes I get imported into these really complicated cases. And in the most complicated of all these cases, the first thing I do is I start to eliminate things. I try to get as much out as I can possibly get out.

You simplify it.

And then you usually find the one thing that's causing everything instead of the everything went wrong at the same time. And I think this is like a metaphor for life, almost. Usually, people's relationships don't fall apart for 15 things. They fall apart because of one thing, which caused 15 outcomes. And it's the same people's health. I mean, simple deficiencies causing multiple things to go wrong. But I think we have very similar messages. I really deeply appreciate. I admire you guys. I mean, you just built such an amazing brand. You're incredible people. You're incredible humans. I really feel a special kinship with you guys. I really do. I feel like I've known you guys for my life.

You literally can come on. I'm sad.

I don't want to go home.

Anytime you and Serge want to come back on our show or you can come back every time you're in Austin, we'd love it.

Well, that's the other thing, too. Simple thing for the young guys that listen to You want to have bad health problems and bad financial outcomes, pick the wrong woman.

You know what I mean?

I talk about this all the time. It's so simple to screw up your life by just picking the wrong partner, man and woman, or whatever. There's just a lot. Again, it's just simple things. And I think a lot of people just get off track with so much optionality. I agree.

That's what social media does to us. Well, guys, I hope you enjoyed this podcast as much as I did. I know it's going to resonate with my audience. I hope you guys will come back on The Ultimate Human. I certainly would love to come back on The Skinny Confidential. Until next time, that's just science.