Transcript of S1EP9: The We We Are (with Jon Stewart)

This episode of the Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is brought to you by Confluence by Atlassian, the connected workspace where teams can create, organize, and deliver work like never before. Set knowledge free with Confluence.

Do you have a seat belt on that chair?

Over the shoulder, strapped in, boys. Okay, great. Bring it.

Here we go. Hey, I'm Ben Stiller.

I'm Adam Scott.

And this is the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every single episode of Severance.

And wow, Ben, we're here at the finale, the season one finale, The We, We are, written, of course, by Dan Erickson and directed, of course, by you, Ben Stiller. How are you doing? I feel...

I mean, first of all, we've gotten through all nine episodes of the first season. It feels like an accomplishment, I think. And it's been a lot easier than I think when we were making the episodes. It seems like it went a lot quicker, but it's been really fun. I feel like you and I have... We're starting to get a little bit of a feeling of what it is to be a podcasting team.

Yeah, it's been super fun. It's been really interesting going back and going through the episodes from the mindset of, I'm going to need to talk about this rather than just cringing and hiding watching through my fingers and being freaked out about watching it. But really, after not having watched it, the last time I watched it was before we started shooting season 2. And then on set, we would go in and look at things to refer to if we needed information or whatever. But really just sitting and watching full episodes, it had been a while.

Yeah. It's interesting when you work on something, you're editing it and just living with it so much. Then all of a sudden you have a break of a year or two in this case. And I was saying the other day, sometimes you look at stuff and it's like, oh, all right, that was pretty good. And then there are other times you look at it and go, oh, I could have done that a lot better. Or you remember the pain of that day of shooting that one thing or what you couldn't get right. But overall, it's a totally different experience watching it when you're disconnected from it, when you're severed from the experience of having actually just made it. And so it's been really fun.

You brought it back full circle there.

Thank you. Yeah. I like to use the terminology whenever I can.

But I think if I were to sum up our little chat here, A, it's an enormous accomplishment that we've made this podcast, perhaps a bigger accomplishment than making the show.

And And B-I think we could maybe retire after doing this podcast.

We've done it all now. B, it's much easier to make a podcast than the actual show.

It is easier than making the show. And it's as fun, though, because making the show is fun. It's more like a long term fun project where you work at it for a long time and the work is fun.

Yes. I love making the show. And another component of rewatching it is it makes me want to get back and start shooting the show some more to start shooting it again.

Yeah, definitely. The other exciting thing about today is for our finale episode of the first season recap podcast is that we have a A huge guest on the show.

Oh, my God, do we?

Yeah. I have known this person for a long time, but he's become a television legend. I was honored to learn also is actually a Séverine superfan, which It's so funny when you're working on this stuff and then all of a sudden somebody you really respect and now reaches out and says, Hey, man, I love that thing. I'm so into it. It's such a great feeling. But the person we're talking about is Jon Stewart, ladies and gentlemen.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Guys, I thought you were about to introduce Letterman. I was listening to the intro, and I was like, Oh, my. I can't wait to meet this person.

But, Jon, you have graduated to those ranks. Youoh, God. You have. And I got the grays to prove it, man. We all do. You've put the work in. You've spent the time.

Yes, I've grinded.

You have. You've become someone that people, I look for guidance and humor and relief. You're just smart, too, John.

Or to angrily yell at by the Holland Tunnel. That also happens.

I will say I remember the moment you reached out to Ben about Severance. Ben, you texted me that John Stuart likes Severance. It was a huge deal.

Doesn't even like Severance. Obsessed. There was an obsession And it's the same way that I found out, and Ben had told me this, that you were filming an episode down near where I live. And so I was able... Ben was kind enough to let me come on the set, and it was this episode, actually, I believe, Ben. Is that correct?

That is correct. You came by while we were shooting the heli sequence for the last episode at Lumen, at the Bell Labs building, which you're in the vicinity of, I guess. I don't want to give away too much. That might be what those drones over-Central Jersey, yo.

What's up?

We can put your address in the show notes.

Not a problem.

As we speak, there's a drone issue over New Jersey, and I don't know if that has to do with-Yes, sorry.

Sorry about that, guys. It's a new business I was starting of giant drone sworms. I just thought, I didn't realize people would get so freaked out about it.

Yeah, exactly.

Whenever I see a report about that on the news or on my phone or something, I literally feel like I'm in a Roland Emmerich '90s Independence Day movie, whatever.

No question.

It feels like that's the scene from the movie where the reporters start talking about these drones that nobody can identify, and people are being told to relax.

They're told to relax. Listen, everything's fine until they get lasers, and then the whole thing is... And they've just been hovering every night.

But you came by, and it was really fun. Our cinematographer, Jessica Lee-Ganier, I'm just going to out her and say she's a big fan of yours, and she doesn't really get impressed by a lot of people. And she got very quiet and was like, oh, my God, John Surt's here.

No, I made I just stay really far away from her. I just sense the vibe.

And you'll notice a lot of the shots are out of focus in that sequence.

Completely out of focus. And I was just so... First of all, that Bell Labs, and I don't know where you guys found it, but it is notoriously for us who live around here, this odd dystopian development. It was Bell Labs for a long time, and then it was bought by a guy who developed it and wanted to create almost a village or a community around it. And it's the weirdest. It's like if Mussolini had decided to plan a subdivision, a suburban It's the weirdest giant cement.

They actually have that on their brochure.

Yes. Mussolini's subdivision.

It's as if.

But I don't know. Perfect for what you would think is this luminex dystopian, and you walk into it and it's like a full-court basketball, right? It's huge. It's in there. And then one coffee shop and Hasidic couples meeting each other. It's the oddest. It's weird.

We spend weeks there and it's frozen yogurt, coffee.

It's really crazy. It's a mixed-use space. They've been trying to... The thing that really blew us away was that nobody had ever filmed anything there. There's been no movies or maybe some commercials, but that's one of the things when we're looking for locations, you want to find something that hasn't been in every Law and Order episode or New York, we shoot a lot. So this place was undiscovered.

If you notice now in Atlanta, any show that you watch, they're now using Covington, Georgia. If you watch Stranger Things and then Walking Dead, you're like, I'm pretty sure that's the same high school.

Totally.

But this place, and there's that great scene when Mrs. Selvig was driving on that long Because there's this really long, beautiful drive into the Bell Labs offices, and you guys captured that so well. And there's that... What's that funny tower, Ben? Yeah, that's the water tower there that they built in the shape of a transister.Okay.

I didn't realize it.Yeah, because that's where the transister was developed by Bell Labs back in the day.Wow..

They've got to make everything shape. The water tower has to... Does it have to hold water? No, it has to look like a transister.

Yeah, I know. It's so interesting. And we've really made that one of the iconic things in the show that we put the Lumen logo on. But all of those houses, the Mussolini subdivision of houses that are built on the sides of that driveway, they built because we've been working on the show for five years. And when we first clouded this place, those houses were just being built. They had just decided to do subdivision on either side of the driveway, which we erase in the show. So when you see the wide scenes, you don't see them. But they built them all around there as a way to, I guess, create a community. It's a very interesting place. And that design and architecture, it was Eero Saarinen, the architect who designed it. Really? Yeah, who also did the TWA terminal at JFK. Right. He's a great mid-century architect. So that's his design. They expanded on it in the '80s and built on the sides a little more. But those little specific touches that he has on the inside are what cued us for the rest of the design of the show, because we found this as the first location we found.

It's remarkable. And people don't know. There's an atrium there that's like nothing I've ever seen before. It's like these sides. And I guess when they were working in Bell Labs, all those sides were the offices. It's the least efficient use of space you could ever possibly imagine. It's just like, what if we just put single file offices down what appears to be three acres and 10 stories high of just open space.

Yeah, it's just a hollowed out three football fields that could have been offices, but instead it's just open air. It's wild.

And they just signed up for one cafeteria space in the corner. That's right. That was the end of it.

And I don't think even in seeing it on screen, you don't get the size of it, the scale of it when you're there. It's so much bigger.

During COVID, so that space became during COVID, a place where people went to avoid each other, but still have that feeling of being around people. And then those giant parking lots, they started showing outdoor movies, and they started doing music or comedy shows where people would sit in their cars because it's just this vast expanse.

Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. I've been there when they've had carnivals in the parking lot and all sorts of things.

You could do any of those. It's the craziest thing.

In spring of 2021, when we were shooting there, and the vaccinations were just starting. There were people lined up all in that lobby getting vaccinated.

In fact, I remember a couple of people from the show got vaccinated there while we were doing the show.

I got to tell you, if the FEMA camps come, that's where they're going to set... That's where we're all going to be reeducated. For whatever is coming next, that is the place.

That will be the place.

That'll be the place where we all go to be reeducated.

It'll be ironic. Yes. Okay, let's take a quick break.

At Lumen, things are not always what they seem. Mark, Dylan, Heli, and Irving in MDR make a great team. But what else lies beyond the four white walls of their department? There seem to be more questions than answers as the secrets of Lumen are slowly revealed.

There's definitely a lot more going on than you see. It's a little bit creepy.

I agree. There are more Qs than As in this place.

Yeah, for sure.

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Listen to and follow True Crime News, The Podcast on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast. John, what was the main thing that drew you about the show? What was the thing about it that was so-I follow Adam Scott everywhere.

So wherever, whatever he does, I jump in Whether he's married to Reese Witherspoon or whether he's heading off into a dystopian, I follow.

That's why you were such a fan of piranha 3D, I would imagine.

So the 3D, obviously, for me, felt a little much But I'm an Adam Scott fan, but I prefer you 2D. I prefer you- Got it. I prefer Lego, to be honest with you. Okay. Keep that in mind. You know, Ben, anything you're in, directing or any of that stuff I watch. But what originally it had such a unique style, atmosphere, tone. Anymore, it's so hard to find something where even the rhythm of it feels so fresh. And so you're really invested in the world that you guys build out. And it's done so meticulously. And there's touches in it that That just feel so unique. It reminds me if you remember in the movie Her, where everyone's pants were just a little higher, and you're like, is that going to mean anything? Or is that just something we're like, in the future, our pants are higher. So in the beginning, that's what intrigues you about the show is, are these little details salient? Are they merely... Is it a bit of window dressing? But you're so invested in the intentionality that you guys infuse into the show. So much intention, and obviously, the execution level is so high that you're immediately Immediately, you feel...

Anytime you're on a show like that, where you're watching and you're leaning in a little bit, you feel yourself just drawn into this world that feels intentional unique, but also utterly authentic to what it is. And so that, for me, just even... I mean, the opening credit sequence. Even that, where I'm just like, Sim Adam Scott in dead? Okay, I'll follow this anywhere.

I was just thrilled to find something that had built its own unique and intentional universe. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I get drawn in by things like that, too. Even making something, it's hard to I've been describing, sometimes it sounds a little bit, really, this is what you want to do. But for me, sometimes it's just living in that world. And that's the music is a really important part of it for me, too. Yes. We work with Teddy Shapiro, who I've worked with since back in the day, like dodgeball, I go all the way back.

I knew him when he was still Shapiro. Before he went with the-Well, I changed my name to Styler, Ben Styler.

The long eye.

I didn't know why. I said, Give me the short eye. Don't give me the long eye.

Yes. Then he moved out to LA and got effective. But what I was saying is this, for me, I get drawn in when working on something to wanting to live in that world. As we're editing it, putting it together, the feeling, the visuals, the sound, and all that. It's something that has really it has to do with the story and all that, too. But there's just something about being in that world that you hopefully have created with all these different elements of the collaboration of everybody who works on it.

I'm also curious, Ben and Adam, I don't know if you feel this way when you're making those kinds of acting choices, but on television, especially something like The Daily Show, it's very ephemeral. And you go on one day and you'll know a Immediately what the response is and all that. Sort of like egg salad. You make it, and three days later, no matter how good it was, it's already gone. But you're ensconced in this world for so long, and like you were saying, five years, and you're making really strong creative choices. How scary is it to do that for so long without any sense of... How do you know when you've gone down a rabbit hole that's going to bear fruit? How do you know when you've made... Because now you're making choices that build upon other choices, and it goes out in these concentric circles. And unveiling that must be terrifying, I would think.

Yes. Adam, do you want to go?

100 %. Sure. I mean, first of all, I totally agree, John, when you're watching something that feels like it has been wholly considered, like everything has been... It's It's comforting. It's something I appreciate. And honestly, as a fan, something I've always appreciated about what Ben does, whether it's Tropic Thunder or Escape at Dan Amora, you feel like every detail you are looking at on that screen has been mulled over and figured out and considered, right? You are in very good hands, right?

Yeah.

As a viewer, that's all I'm looking for. That is it. So to be in that world, and it was the same with Walter Mitty, too, where you are, everything is there and ready. So you can trust completely in the world and in your director and what Ben's doing. But yeah, I I think it hit me later than it hit Ben, but at a certain point when it was time for the season one to come out. Yeah, it was terrifying. For me, it was when the billboards went up and I saw my face huge around town, and that was the first time I had experienced that. That's when I freaked out because it's just like, we really took a big swing here. We really like it.

The top of your head is gone at the Somebody had to say, I like this Adam Scott fellow, but not crazy about his whole head.

We got to take the top half.

Give me three quarters of Scott's head.

That's right.

That was the one where we go, That's the one. That's the one.

It was just like, are people just going to make fun of it? You had the same moment, too, right, Ben? For me, it's yes, for sure.

But what happens is I go into when I'm working on something, It's different because it's not like what you're doing on television where you're getting immediate feedback. You just make a commitment. If you're making a movie, it's the same thing. You make a commitment to it and you go and you work on it, and then you show your first cut eventually. That's when you're like, oh, shit, I hope this works. You try. But on this thing, it's different because it's nine or 10 episodes. It's a much longer period of time. We were doing it during COVID, the first season, and it was literally in a bubble. The whole thing was so insulated. It was a great creative experience that for me, I fool myself somehow when I'm working on something that I'm just in it. When I do a take in a movie, I'm like, Well, maybe it won't be that take. Maybe it'll be the other take, so I don't have to Don't worry about that now. That frees me up, I guess, just to try stuff. It wasn't until we finished the last cut of the last episode. I remember one night being at home because I was editing remotely with Jeff Richmond our editor, and we finished.

I remember just having this thought of like, Oh, wait a minute. We've been doing this thing for two years. I think it's good. I like it. I really like it. But this thing could totally just fail. It could just be like, or nobody people could watch it or people could think it doesn't work. But I put that off until I have to think about it. Then it is incredibly, yeah, this moment in time right now when we're about to release the new season, Adam and I commiserate on it all the time. It's that feeling of like, oh, shit, I hope. It's different the second time around because the first time, you had no expectations. Just it was like, I hope we're not embarrassed. You know what I mean?

It's like, I hope people-Because it's so novel. I mean, part of it is sometimes when you're creating something, you have all these analogs. I don't know if you... Whenever I'm in a position to be able to build out a world, you're always... You've got your Pinterest board of all the different influences and things, and you're pulling them from different places. But what you guys had made was so novel that it's really hard to find analogs. You can find inspirations. But if you're thinking about that, everything in And television and film and all that is boiled down to that. It's like gone with the wind with the Muffets. You're always trying to tie those two things together. There was such oxygen in it, such inspiration, such different things that it's hard to find that. I imagine for you guys as a comfort, hard to be like, well, it'll be like this.

Yeah. It's funny. We made the first three episodes, and I I directed the first three in the last three. I remember thinking after I made the first three, okay, I think these are good. I like these. Then I was like, oh, no. But the last three, I don't know if the last three are going to live up to the first three because I didn't have as much prep time and it got more... It's tough as you go along, you're shooting. Then it was like a lot of people had this opposite reaction. I was like, Oh, I think it starts out... Some people were like, It starts out slow, and then you get into it. But I was thinking the opposite. Like, Oh, I It felt like we nailed it in the first few episodes. I hope, though. And especially because the last episode, which we're talking about today, we shot the whole show like a movie where you'd go to one location and shoot scenes from episode three, six, and nine at Deborah and Rick. House, and then we're going to go to Lumen.

That's hard for the actors, too, I would imagine, because they're at different levels of investment in their characters. I imagine that's difficult. Yeah.

It's tough also just in terms of when you're thinking of a whole season, because I've never I did that with Escape at Dynamur, I guess. But this was bigger. When we got to Devon and Rickon's house to shoot, which is one of the first places we shot for the season, we shot all the scenes from episode one and whatever other episodes were there. Then we had to go and shoot the scenes for episode nine there. This was a month into the shoot or something like that. All of a sudden, Adam is doing his She's Alive moment. It was so out of context. I remember The way it was for episode nine was we would have to catch scenes for this episode every time we were... When we were at Lumen, when you came, we would just catch scenes. We sometimes would go back and reshoot, too. But overall, we were piecing this episode together piecemeal over the course of nine months. Every once in a while, I'd check in with Jeff or editor and say, How's nine coming along? It's like, Well, we have this piece and that piece. I remember being very insecure about nine, thinking...

Because also, I'd always imagined it, it's going to be totally different visually than the rest of the show because the show is very... Everything's very set and ordered. Not a lot of handheld, if any, unless there's a specific thing. But for episode nine, we're like, We're going to use Steadicam the whole time, and it's going to be flowing because we want to be in the point of view of these characters. That felt weird every time we'd pull out the Steadicam to shoot because I was like, It should be in their point of view the whole time, but you can't be in their point of view the whole time because then you'll never see them. How do you do that? And so I was constantly feeling feeling like I hadn't quite figured it out and was just doing whatever we could to try to tell the story, making this choice. We knew that it was going to be very subjective. Yeah.

I remember doing-I'm stunned that the choices that you made that early on, because what I love about Nine is that it's different from...

So much of it is not an office comedy, but that sense of you You have this sense of place, and you can have a distance from it. But those party scenes are so claustrophobic and suspensful and almost Hitchcockian. But to make that choice so far in advance, and even Adam, for you, the acting is so different. That sense of when you come out and you say, How's our baby? It's such a great, I don't know where the fuck I am. But clearly, I have a baby.

The speed at which you have to come up to knowledge as your innie is taking it in.

The idea that you guys did that week one blows my mind.

I remember doing it quite a bit of experimentation at those party scenes. Remember that rig I almost was going to wear for some of it, but it just ended up being too cumbersome.

Yeah, we had this helmet cam type thing we used, I think, in the first episode for Haley's point of view when she's trying to get out the emergency exit, where the helmet would have a camera on it so you could actually see her hands and everything. That's right.Wow. Like a GoPro. Yeah. The person is walking around like a camera robot or something, and that didn't work. And I remember that's what I'm saying. I remember us improvising and going, Okay, let's just do... We'll do Like, handheld here, we'll do a steady cam here. And I mean, talking about that part of the episode, I agree. Adam is like having to every second, he's having to take in this-He's recalibrating his relationships.

Yeah.

And I remember just we have that discussion for every scene, like even when you first see Rickon reading, and then you go outside with him and we realize, Oh, wait, you've never been outside before. But are we going to play that or not? No, well, that's cute.

I remember trying a take I was reacting to the sky and stuff, and it was like, We just have to stay on this one track because it became about six things, and it was just too much. It was also about reacting to the surroundings findings, but he also can't be found out until he says the wrong name to cobelt, so he can't be- But even that, what a great throw away, though.

Everything else is so intentional with your character, right?

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden, you're just like, All right, Miss Cobell. And he said, What?

No. Why did you... He doesn't know her by any other name, so just assumes that. But I feel like I've said this on the podcast already a couple of times, but that was the moment where when we were shooting it, I went to Ben and Patricia and just thought out loud about, if the architecture has gotten us to the right place, this moment is going to be the moment where things start to fall. This is going to be so fun for the audience when I call her Cobell, and not knowing the percentage of whether they'll be with us or not, but knowing this will be so much fun.

Right. And it's such an estimation of where the investment is, but it all delivered on that investment. I mean, that whole episode is such a wonderful delivery on all the investment that the audience had put in as a member of that audience. It really was such a satisfying ride. Even Turturo, being like, car.

Yeah. That's so fun to watch. Oh, my God.

All that was just... You're just like, Oh, this is so awesome to watch the innies just try and figure this shit out.

Yeah. I I also always look forward to the meeting of Mark and Rickon, Any Mark and Rickon, because this idea that Mark on the outside really doesn't like Rick and Mark on the inside idolizes him. I just loved that juxtaposition. I thought that was such a really smart idea by Dan as a storyline. Looking forward to this meeting that finally any Mark will meet Rickon, and how will Rickon, not knowing it's Any Mark, react to this version of Mark that likes him. And so that scene for me. Also, I'm a Michael Churnis fan who plays Rickon. There's so much humor in what he's doing.

To me, the best part of the entire scene, honestly, is that his Man Friday's name is Balf.

Oh, I know.

What is it? It's not even a name.

I wrote Balf down this morning while watching the episode. It's my favorite, too.

The name Balf is just... Was it Ralph?

It's Balf. Balf. Okay. But Dan Erickson in Names is just a thing. He's I mean, also, he says, prepare the netty pot because his throat... He just does this thing after he's finished his reading that it's taken a lot out of him and he has to regroup. But then he's outside, and then he confides in Mark that he's insecure about it. I'm It's just a sad hamburger waiter.

That's the interesting, really interesting is that suddenly we see that Ricken is self-aware and aware of his relationship with Mark and where it is and how he sees him.

Right. Yeah. I think you're right, though, that it was the writing of this episode that brings together all these threads that makes it satisfying. I mean, honestly, because when I watched it, I just watched it last night and I was like, All right, It flows and it works and it builds. There are places where it builds to crescendos and then resets and then builds again, tension-wise. But really, what I think is the thing about the episode that people like is that it's bringing together all these stories. You know what I mean? If you said to somebody, Hey, this is a great episode of TV. Watch this out of context, it would really be like, Okay, there's a guy driving, there's a guy talking. But I think what it is for the fans of the show, it seems, is that it's very satisfying to see all these things come together. And of course, what Mark learns, what any Mark learns. And again, when we were shooting it, it was a little bit of a shot in the dark in terms of how much we could actually get away with in terms of stopping the tension or slowing down to have the scene with Devon, where you have to talk about who you are, where she's telling you who you are.

Sure. And you're also editing it together before you have a sense of what the audience investment will ultimately be. In other words, television in the sense that it happened before streaming, like when you think about Seinfeld or those kinds of episodes, it's all happening in real time. So you're getting a sense of It's how Hercel becomes the centerpiece of family matter. You're understanding what the audience is responding to, and you're adjusting, not necessarily in deference to that, but accordingly to what people are responding to. You did that in a vacuum, and did it like... I mean, believe me, it's not perfect. I do have some bones to pick.

Okay, let's take a quick reflection break, and when we come back, we'll get John's notes on the rest of the season.

Okay, we're back. And, John, do you have some notes for us for season one?

I mean, it's not really the... These are not foundational necessarily. It's really just one note, and it's really not the whole season. It's really, it's focused more on episode nine. The whole season is so considered in each character. When it comes to giving the Inny's time, why would you pick the character with the shortest wingspan? That's a great question. You got Torturo there who's lanky as hell. I mean, He's got a half teradactyl. Yeah. He could have stood there like Wembenyana, dunking. You're in the meeting and you say, Let me grab the guy Clearly, he's going to have the hardest time bridging this gap.

100%.

Poor Dylan.

100%.

Dylan is- That's the only note. Listen, I do have a sub stack dedicated to this. I appreciate it if you guys would at least subscribe.

Honestly, I never even thought about that other than Dylan was so... He really wanted to do it. He really felt like he was the man to do it.

Yeah, he's super confident.

I'll tell you something, when we designed that set, we literally had Zack Cherry go into that room to stretch his arms out so we can get the exact length for his arms. Wow.

That's so smart. Because he had to.

He had to do that.

I love that they were at disparate heights. You would almost think like when someone goes in there to build those switches, that there'd be a symmetry to it. But the idea that he had to go one up and then one down, I was just like, That's so It's fucking perfect.

It looks painful. It's horrible. Yeah, definitely.

Jeff Mann, who is a production designer who came on for the later part of the season, came in, and he's a guy I've worked with over the years a lot, and that was his child, and he just really got that full weird retro '80s-ish vibe in that room, too.

Ben, you're saying Jeff Mann designed the control room. Was there any Star Trek influence in the control room?

Well, I mean, there's no literal Star Trek influence, but for me, I think everything comes back to Star Trek. It's like, weirdly, just like, it's such a huge thing in my life that I'm so obsessed with, the original series. Yeah. And so even when we were making the hallways and I'm such a trekkie, I have the plans of what they had on stage nine at Paramount, where they had the bridge and the hallway and sick Bay and all of it. That's awesome. Just fascinating to me how there was only just one little It's a hallway section. So Jeremy Hindle, our production designer, and I talked about that a lot when we were creating all the hallways saying, Okay, we're going to have to reuse these a lot, and we'll have to figure out ways to do that. Anyway, the room was really Jeff coming in, and he had a real sense for that. I think we wanted to make sure that the monitors were CRT monitors. And we don't know. We just don't know what this room is really about.

I love the dichotomy of it's such a future heuristic technology and this dystopian. And then you go into that control room and you're like, is this where Alan Turing did the code-making? There is a certain 1940s, 1950s switchboard vibe. Oh, I'll just take out this one views and put it over here and flip that down. You're just like, Wait, in the future? They've gone analog.

Yeah. And being in there, every little switch and button did feel, it felt like we were walking into like 1973 or something. Also, all those books we would pull out and flip through, those were just filled with specific instructions and procedures and stuff. It was amazing.

Yeah, there actually was a real procedure that he did. All of those steps were real in terms of what he had to learn.

Those books aren't Loram Ipsum?

No, no.

Because- Latin nonsense?

They're not because we also know, even with the trailer that's out for season 2 now, people freeze the frame. There's a newspaper in the trailer, and they freeze frame, and they read all what's written there. So we knew that the handbooks and all that stuff. I didn't know that it would happen, but I assumed it might happen if people like the show. And Kat Miller, our props person, would work with Dan Erickson to make sure that all of the writing in every page of anything you read is real. We wanted to also give Zack something to actually do, because when you're shooting something like that, it's like you have to get all the little pieces, right? If you have an actual series of things that he has to do, it makes it easier to shoot it also because you know that you're covering each bit of action. Right. We did that with him. Then I would be lying, though, if I said that I did not many times over the course of making the show, as we were getting ready to put it out in the world, I was nervous that people would buy that whole thing, honestly.

Oh, you buy it 1,000%.

I know, I was really like, the things you're saying about, Hey, it looks like it could be Alan Turing or that. On the flip side, if somebody didn't buy the show, be like, What the hell? It looks like...

That's what makes it so great.

That's what was a relief when people were bought into the reality of the show that when they get to this crazy control room that they believe.

Listen, we buy into the whole, I still don't understand what they do. What cleaning? I don't know what any of this is.

That's important.

You're still We're invested in it.

Yeah. And that's important because we also want the audience to feel that even though you don't know what this stuff is about, there's a reason for it and it's going somewhere. I mean, that's the the bigger picture of what is it all about.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. So this is really interesting because in this next scene, we get to see Haley's Audi in her natural environment. She's in a formal dress. She has an updo. She's talking to Natalie, the woman who's been the liaison between cobel and the board all along. It quickly becomes clear that Heli is at the Lumen Gala. Actually, not only is she at the gala, she is actually Helena Egan. And the gala is dedicated to her contributions to the technology of severance.

What was your impression on the set when you came and visited?

I was there in that scene when Heli Arck comes in and she's walking through the gallery of her Severed story. It's so overwhelming because it's practical. So many times you go into those sets and they are, I don't want to say shortcuts, but they don't have to create the fullness of experience. So when I walked in and I saw the Severance story for L-E-R, and it's all laid out across, and it's vast. I mean, it's not a lot of times you walk on a set, too, and you'll be like, I had no idea the set of the price is right is so tiny. Oh, that wheel, it looked gigantic. I was impressed by the scale. And then And even like that little, the scene where the one I was watching was when Patricia first interrupts Hélia Arndt as she's about to walk out.

Oh, yeah. Let's take a listen to that scene.

Is it cute? I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. What are you talking about? It is you, isn't it? I'm going to kill your company. Your company? Who the hell do you think you are? No.

Your friends are going to suffer.

Mark will suffer.

You'll be long gone. But we will keep them alive in pain.

You're on.

I decided that we could do better. He may never have seen a step-She's walking out. She does that one look back, and you're just like, what a great moment of she's about to burn this fucking place down. And she just does this quick look back like, okay, I guess we're good. Just like, boom. So I was really excited when I walked around it because of the feel of it was so evocative as you're walking it.

Yeah, those cubes are really cool. And that was also Jeff Mann. I think he was inspired by some... There was like some Expo in Montreal in the late '60s. He showed me these pictures of black and white photography that was lit up on cubes. And so that was his inspiration for that.

Oh, yeah. I didn't even think of that. But now that you said it, it does. It's got that Like '60s, the world of the future presentation. It's got like a real Expo vibe to it.

Yeah. And also those pictures, we haven't talked about this, but the black and white pictures that Milchick has been taking all season. If you remember in episode 2, right when she's getting the severance procedure, Milchick takes a picture of her in the operating room, and you see that on one of the cubes. The idea was every time we shoot one of those scenes across the season, we would shoot the shots with our still photographers who were amazing. Then Jeff Mann, who was doing production design at this point on the show, created these cubes, and it really had this feeling, yeah, like you were saying, John, of this world of tomorrow. Yeah. It was fun to also figure out how to tell that story and how Heli would basically come to the realization in that moment when she sees Heli, a severed story that, Oh, my God, this is what her whole life has been.

Right.

Yeah, and the crass commercialization of her entire life so far and that she's just this prop, essentially.

And that John Stuart was at the gala walking around in the background. I was just walking around.

I was checking out the Expo, trying to see if that was something I was interested in trying this, this severance experience. I thought it was interesting when her father was talking to her. You have this relationship between the he's in the outies and the people that are experiencing it. But the way that he spoke of her innie as a separate entity that had nothing to do with her, I think he was talking about when that woman tried to hurt you, when you're just talking about the suicide attempt.

Yeah. Oh, you know what? I would like to listen to that scene. She's in here, sir. Who am I? You look so nice.

Like a film.

Thank you. Are you Are you selling me? No.

Not anymore.

I cried in my bed when they told me what she tried to do to you. What that Annie tried to do. I... Thank you for going through with it. The grandfather would cherish what you've done. But one day, you will sit with me at my revolving.

I thought that was such an interesting way for him to relate to this technology that I'm I'm assuming he has a hand in, that he has such disdain for this creature.

Yeah, I mean, definitely, you get the sense that the innies are looked on as less than human. Right. They're looked on as these creations, and yet he's created them. You're right.

That's right.

I was so like, oh. Yeah. What is this guy up to? What is that about? And I think that in this bathroom scene, there's this connection he's having with her. You can see he's obviously a strange guy, but he has this real connection with Heli, who he would think is Helena, but is Hely. And I think that's something that's there and interesting because you don't know what relationship he has with his daughter. You get the sense it's not a very... I mean, the fact that his daughter's in the ladies room and the assistant opens door and says she's in here and he just comes in. In the ladies room?

Yeah. Why not? I'm just excited to find out if we are going to see him at his revolving. When he goes, You'll be there at my revolving. And I'm like, What is this now? Wait, what?

John, I hope you'll come to my revolving when I haven't.

I'm going to come to all of your revolvings. A life well-lived is one with a fully attended revolving. That's what I'm talking about, those little moments of where you really do lay out. It's the absurdity of our rituals, the absurdity sometimes of how we go through these performances at different points in our careers and our lives that are meant to be infused with all this meaning. And when you really strip them away, you're like, oh, it's a revolving.

It's a revolving to someone else, it's just a revolving. It's just a fucking...

It's a revolving.

Well, to me, that's the basic idea of the show that I always was drawn to, is that you meet these people, and it is like a workplace, work a day, comedy vibe in the beginning of the banter and everything. But these people don't know who they are, what they're doing, why they're there. That's a metaphor for life.

No question.

I think that, to me, is always what resonated.

Also, So we should take note of how great Brit is in these scenes, and with her father coming in the bathroom and seeing Haley just trying to fucking figure out what's going, who this guy is, first of all. And what the fuck he's talking about? Just everything. She's just doing stellar work.

The acting that you guys do in episode nine is just beautifully rendered with how small those little realizations have to be. You're basically undercover spies that are working this party as agents and watching you negotiate that, figuring out who to trust, what the different relationships, how to be reserved, but still carry on that human bargain we make in terms of conversation of the right nonverbal agreement.

And also to Tutturo in the episode, he doesn't have a single line except for Bert at the end. So the whole episode is just John Tutturo.

That was a heartbreaking one, to be honest. The Tutturo arc in that, Hélia is surrounded by community. Mark, as cut off as he is after his wife's death, is surrounded by community. John has a dog. It's nice, but he's alone. And he's got a box of memories and a dog and a love that he can't have. It just breaks your heart. And then to know that his love is so fun to imitate.

Worldwide.

Worldwide. How many times on set, you, How can you not do the Christopher Walk? But that really, to me, was so stark is to see his light. And his paintings are dark and that hallway where you see the light. You just felt so badly for his loneliness. Yeah.

Yeah. And he has such an inner life as an actor. You just put the camera on his face and there's just so much depth there.

John is unbelievable. And watching John figure out how to drive the car.

That's the best. That's the best. Even the power windows at one point, I think he figured it out like the power windows.

And it's It's also the question of what does a severed person know intuitively? He obviously has some intuitive muscle memory of doing this. Because he's driven.

Yeah. He has driven.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's always an interesting question for the actors, I think, in every scene is that they get to choose how much comes through or how much doesn't. Sometimes it's more in the forefront.

Yeah. It's really interesting because we talked to John Tutturo about this when we had him on for the last episode, but we didn't want to spoil 109 at that time. So Why don't we listen to that right now?

When you finally come to consciousness in Irving's apartment and you find that trunk. We find all of this information that Irving has been passing, and we find some little clues to Irving's past somehow. One of the things we see is a photograph. Do you want to talk about that?

That's the photograph of my father.

It's the photograph of your father, yeah.

Right. In the Navy. I brought his actually uniform from World War II to the set. That's the first time and the only time I will use that.

I thought that was so special that you did that. That moment of, Okay, what does this mean? What is this history? Who is that person? It's probably Irving's father. That it's actually your father just adds another layer to it. Where we leave Irving at the end of episode 9, it's such a big part of the end of the season, besides the cliffhanger that Adam has of what he says, is you pounding on that door.

I think it's symbolic of the whole show. Everybody's pounding on that door. Everyone's in this raw state in a way. And so you are connected to the other people at the same time. We're all going through that in different ways. Dylan is allowing us to do that. And so It was just an interesting challenge, I think, for all of us as actors to be embodying this other part of ourselves and not knowing exactly how to do that, like drive a car, find a place, look at a map.

You had to drive a car instinctually and you had to figure it out.

You came in good direction. You were like, just try that. That was fun in a way. It was great.

It was great to watch you do that. Then that raw emotion at the The End. I mean, anybody who has ever felt anything in their life for a real love for somebody else, and the pain of a relationship that doesn't go well, who's ever been there, knows what that is. You did that, and you did it out of context, shooting it was not easy because we shoot the show so out of order and in such bits and pieces, you just had to show up one night and do that. Totally disconnected from the rest of that episode.

Yeah, Well, sometimes it's piecemeal work. That's why it's good when you've thought through the whole thing before and you have someone helping guide you there.

But should we go back at the very end, just quickly? The very end is Dylan there as Milchick is trying to... And you were talking about the perks that Milchick is offering him as he's trying to get into the security room. Should we play that? Maybe just to play one bit of that. Sure. I bet the tempers were disappointing. Dylan. I can still get you back in there. I can get you any perk you want, Dylan. Hey, there's stuff you don't even know about.

There's paintball, there's coffee cozies.

Dylan, come on. Just say the word and I'll get you a coffee cozy, literally right now, Dylan. Come on, man.

I want to remember my fucking kid being born.

You had two others. I can tell you about them. Just open the door and I'll tell you their names. Come on, Dylan. Dylan?

That's so fucked up.

It, again, speaks to, imagine you think you're dealing with idiots. You think you're dealing with idiot children that a coffee cozy would be enough. This person has risked everything to open up the floodgates, to open up the innie, and he's like, I got a coffee cozy. He's like, I want to know my fucking children. Yeah. And he didn't know what... I almost thought he was going to be like, I can get your children coffee cozy, that he wasn't going to understand. But you realize, oh, Milchick understands. He just thinks the innies aren't capable of that level of emotional life.

Yeah. I think also the coffee cozys probably worked and would have worked before he had seen his kid in real life. Right. And then he's been, right?

Yeah. Milchick letting him see his kid or getting him in a situation where he could potentially meet his kid is an irreversible fuck up. The thing really is that when each of the MDR people, all four of them, get exposed to love and affection of some sort, that is when they all start turning a little bit, when they get a taste of this human experience, that's when they start pulling away from Lumen in one way or another.

And I hate to say this, but there are times that The Daily Show, when we reward the staff, similarly to how Milchick does, and that we have had Waffle parties for the staff. And when I sing, I can't tell you how when I saw that my heart sank. I thought, well, we got that Waffle. I don't know if you guys have ever seen it. It's like dingles and waffles truck. After a particularly long run, we'll bring in the dingles and waffle truck. Sure. Then as I'm watching, Milchick promising, I can get you all the waffles you need. I'm like, Oh, dear God. Am I Milchick? Is that what this is?

If you think we didn't get the Waffle truck brought over to the Severn set, you would be wrong.

The day I was there, Ben had gotten you guys ice cream.

That's right. We went and got some ice cream.

There was an ice cream truck. I got to partake in the ice. I got the reward without ever having to go through the trials and tribulations.

Yeah. What did you feel when Adam at the end says she's alive in that moment happened?

It's heartbreaking because it's one thing to want to struggle to figure out what's happening, but then to think that involved in that is the greatest betrayal that a human could maybe undergo. It's one thing to think like, Hey, these guys are fucking with us. Waffle party? That's not so great. I don't like how that... That moves it from dystopian experiment to true malevolence, like true evil. Now you're like, Oh, this is an evil that's beyond something we he can even comprehend.

Yeah, because we've seen Mark gradually become disillusioned with the company. But I think that he figured he had hit the ceiling of the depravity of this place when he decided When they all did the overtime contingency and came out there stumbling across this photo, I don't think the furthest reaches of his imagination ever imagined that someone could do something this horrifying or a company could do something that's terrible.

You know what struck me, I don't know if you guys have... If this is in the lure or however you do it, but it was the first time that I thought, oh, Lumen is setting people up for severance because his wife dying is the event that drove him to sever. So now you're thinking, oh, wait, are they conducting experiments and doing shit to people to drive them to sever? Like, Is that also being manipulated? Come on, tell me.

No.

These are not rhetorical questions. You answer me.

We're not on your show, John. We don't have to.

That's That's right. This is our show, bro.

Tracy said, all she said to me, I said I was doing this today, Tracy, my wife. She goes, I want every episode, and I want it in bulk. I want to binge it. I don't going to sit through week to week. You will get those episodes, and you will get them in full.

John, this has been so much fun. Thank you for doing this.

Yeah, thanks, man.

Guys, it's my absolute pleasure It's been a pleasure.

I know we're friends and everything, but I continue to be impressed and just grateful for what you do.Thank.

You, friend.Yeah, man. Much appreciated, and I can't wait to do this again season 2, brothers.

Definitely.

Truly an honor.Bye, John.

All right. Take it easy. All right. All right. Well, that's it for season 1 of the podcast. Wow. Congratulations.

Yeah, congrats.

If you're listening to this on the day it dropped, the premiere of season 2 is tomorrow, January 17th on Apple TV+.

Holy cow. It's finally here. Yes.

I mean, it seemed like it never would come.

Yeah, and we're dropping a new podcast episode about the premiere right after it airs, and we'll continue to drop new podcast episodes every week with some incredible new guests.

That's right. They come out right after the show, so you can listen right away. I just want to thank all the guests who joined us for the recap of Season 1, and thank everybody for listening. I hope you guys enjoy Season 2.

The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, The Odyssey app, or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Henry Malowski, Jenna Weis-Burman, and Leah Reece Dennis. The show is produced by Zandra Ellen and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Baisal. We have additional engineering from Javi Kruises and Davie Sumner.

Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Jonalee, Michael LeVay, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kirt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff.

And the team at Red Hour, Jon Lesher, Carolina Pessacoff, Jean Pablo Antanetti, Martin Valderuten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker, and Oliver Agger.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christie Smith at Rise Management.

We also had additional production help from Gabriele Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Steven Key, Kristen Torres, Emmanuel Hapsis, Maria Alexa Kavanaugh, and Melissa Slaater.

I'm Adam Scott. I'm Ben Stiller. And we will see you next time.

Hey, Adam. Yeah. Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately?

I don't know. I think it's...

Okay, I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian.

Oh, my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian.

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That would equal out, if we're playing with, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points, that's the improvement.

I mean, I'm not great at math, but that sounds very close.

Well, I'm doing the math in my head right now as we speak, and I think that's great.

Why not keep your team unsevered in Confluence, the connected workspace where teams can do it all? Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at atlassian. Com/confluence. That's atlassian. Com/confluence.confluencie..