Transcript of South Beach Sessions - O'Shea Jackson Jr.

You're listening to DraftKings Network. Welcome to the West Coast edition We have South Beach Sessions right here. We've got generations of Los Angeles in front of me. O'shea Jackson Jr. Your father's very Los Angeles. You're very Los Angeles. I'm from Den of Thiefs. He played his father in his debut role in Straight Outta Compton. You got Godzilla. You got Cocaine Bear. But the thing that's most important, the only thing that matters right now, the greatest pride that he has is his nerddom in wrestling. Oh, yeah. No contest wrestling. You've got a podcast and you are Immersed in all things wrestling. How have you not been dissuaded of this as an adult? The greatest arguments I had with my father was, Dad, that's not fake. Jimmy Snuka, that's not fake. That can't be faked.

Yeah, I grew up having those arguments and things like that. But once you start to become a smarter wrestling fan, you know what you're looking at, but then you know what you're looking for, too. If you can, with everyone's knowledge of the business, for a split second, for however long, make them believe you got them. You got them in the palm of your hand. As an actor, I appreciate what they do because in my line of work, I get cuts, I get redos. It's not going to be in the movie until it's perfect. But with them, it's live, and they have to add to a character every week as opposed to waiting for a season. So, yeah, I mean, and to go is So much better than watching on TV. There's some things, some aspects that a television match can give you that you don't get from live, like you're not hearing the announcers or anything like that, but the energy of the crowd and just seeing people that might break a limb just for our applause, you got to admire him.

I want to keep talking to you about wrestling, and we will, but the screenwriter in you, the screenwriter who went to USA dreaming of what? What is it that you were going to be when you start at the in college?

Everyone's there to write for TV and movies. I wanted to write for video games. That was what I was going to do. At the time, with my freshman year, I think Call of Duty made a billion in a weekend, and I was like, Your father's son, man. Yeah, I can make you pay $16 a movie ticket, or I can make you pay $60 a game. So that's where I was headed. And then, second year, pops tells me taking this NWA movie series, and I didn't think that the conversation was going to lead to my career path. I was just like, All right, cool. It's dope. I'm happy for you. And he said, In a perfect world, I want you to play me. And I was not necessarily jumping for joy because there's not really a lot of good rap movies, especially at that time. But the thing is, my dad's never asked me to do anything. He's just always been a provider, and this was the first time where I felt like he needed me. So I had to jump on it. He said, We're going to have to make you audition. And I said, Please make me audition, because I've heard the Godfather 3 stories, the Francis Ford Coppola's daughter and how that went.

And if I don't get it in an audition, I'm just not good. It's not like I didn't try. So we auditioned, and Gary gray saw something that he liked. From there, he got me an acting coach, Aaron Spizer, who I feel like I owe everything to. Aaron Spizer hooked me up with Susan Batson. I flew to New York to work with her for a few weeks. Two years later of auditioning and watching my friends graduate without me on Instagram. Got the part, here I am.

So it's an accident?

Kind of. It just fell in my lap, and I left school to pursue it. So now it's just about making it work. The one thing that I do wish I would have did differently When you go to college and you're in your major, you don't really grasp that... College is about putting a bunch of people with the same idea in the same room together. And you're supposed to make these connections with these people because you don't know who you're going to need or what as you go further in this career that you're choosing. And I didn't do that. I lost touch with my writer friends, and I wish I would have kept touch with it. Because now that I'm in the door, as far as the film industry goes, I still have my ideas for shows and everything. I wish we all would have stayed. I would have held them tight writer because I would have had a team. I would have had a team of writers right there and people that I know can do it. I got to go on Instagram and hunt them all down, but I wish I would have had a better connection with them.

Take me through that, though. You're basically leaving school with your father's blessing to chase this, and you think your father is needing you, asking you for something for one of the few times. Yeah.

It's an amount of pressure that he's never vocally said, but just that as his son, I felt. And when you go all in, you put pressures on yourself, and You put yourself in a situation where you have to. We have to get this. A lot of times with second generation kids, the Népo babies, the first generation, a lot of their want, need, or drive is external stuff, whether that be, I don't want to live like this anymore, or I need to get out of this I need to better myself. I need to be above all this. When you're a second generation, life is good. You look around life and it's like, What am I running from? You weren't straight out of conflict. I had to have an You have to have an internal thing of wanting more for yourself. And that comes from the conversations with my dad and my mom about whether that's... They never said anything like, You got to stand on your own two feet, but just want more for yourself. For yourself. And so I had to use things like that pressure of going all in and not having an option afterwards.

Because at USC, the screenwriting program is a four-year program. You can't just leave in your second and then just jump back in.

Hard to get into as well.

So I felt like, If I don't make this work, I'm screwed. So that's that fire. Now I got to win the role. He didn't tell me this at the time, but I found out when he told the higher-ups that he wanted me to play him, their response was, Is this a joke? That would have been more fire for me. Wanting to do it for my siblings, wanting to do it for my siblings because when I win, I feel like we win. I do it for Darryl, Kareemah, and Sharif. And then you got my cousins like, Well, you got to get it. So it's all these things that I'm using to fuel my fire. And then once I did get the role, then all the nepotism talk starts. I'm like, All right, now I'm going to prove to you that I can do it. And then when I do it and it's great, then it was, Well, of course, he could play his dance. They tell you not to read comments and do all that stuff. But I use that as fuel. I use that bulletin board, and I got to go at him.

Was the doing of it fun or was it pressurized?

The first month, pressure. I was scared to death. I had amazing chemistry with Jason Mitchell, Cory Hawkins, my man Aldrich Haj, Neil Brown Jr. That was the crew. That was NWA. If it wasn't for those guys and the chemistry we had and just being excited to work with them all the time, laugh with them all the time, I would have had a hard time doing straight out of Compton, harder than I already did.

Well, which is the one that you're distrusting the most? The fact that Hollywood doesn't make very good hip hop movies or that you're not going to serve the legacy of your father the way that you or he would want it to be served in film?

I knew auditioning and working and workshopping for two years on that role, I knew by the time that the first action, I was ready. I've been holding it and focused for two years straight. There was really nothing that was going to stop me from portraying my dad, how I know him, and to make sure that what I put on the screen was true. You're always nervous that you want the movie to do good. You want to. And when you're in it, everything feels good. But then once you put it out, you're hoping and wishing, and it crushed. So a lot of the fears were, I'm going to say, more so whether or not I was getting it right from an acting perspective. I know how my dad would act in certain situations, but is it translating properly on the camera? I feel like it did.

How did your life change after that?

Well, I can't watch movies the same. Movies have been ruined for me. Every time I watch a movie now, I just think about how it was shot, how long that probably took. This probably sucked. I was watching Godzilla versus Kong, and that's a movie you're supposed to just kick back, turn your brain off, man. And there's a scene where Godzilla flips a ship that Kong is still chained up to, and somebody has to dive into the water, hit the button. All I could think about was, do you know how annoying diving into that water was? Thirteen times. So that type of stuff is ruined for me.

That's a shame. You used to be a film buff, right?

Now I'm like, Oh, man, what a nightmare. Every time. Or I'm impressed in a different way.

Yeah, you're not watching the movie. You're watching how it was made because because it's now your life. It's funny to hear you say that it's an accident, though. So writing for video games, what was that going to be? Explain to me what writing for video games would have been as a career versus what it is you're presently doing. What was the path to?

Well, at USC, what I was really taken in is the art of storytelling, the difference between a popcorn movie movie and what they consider cinema, what things draw, what emotions from people. The best video games have a story behind them, along with gameplay, because gameplay is important. But they have a story behind them that sticks with you forever. When I was in, so I was about 12, sixth grade, I played a game called Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts is a mixture of a franchise Final Fantasy and mixed with Disney. And so on the surface, it looks like a fun kids game, but you log in all these hours, over 80 hours or whatever the game is, you have this attachment to this character and what they're going through, and you want the best for them. And when it doesn't work out, it crushes you. Or when you're left on a cliffhanger, I'm on that cliffhanger forever. And I wanted to do that for people. I wanted to create those feelings and those emotions that I'm having that never let go I wanted to do that for other people. And so I was at USC learning how the greats did that through that media and doing whatever I can to translate a story of the magnitude of a movie and then form it into a video game.

What's going on in your household that makes it so attracted to storytelling? Your father in hip hop, that's all it is. Screenwriting, wrestling. It's all stories.

Yeah, I didn't know I wanted to be a screenwriter until probably nine months before I applied. It wasn't on my radar. I was supposed to play for the Lakers until I was 17 years old. That's when I called it quits. But I had a teacher, shout out to Hernán, and shout out to Rochelle, because these two mean so much to me, and I have to hunt them down and find them, but they were my homeschool teachers. I was in public school from kindergarten through seventh grade. Seventh through 11th, I was homeschooled. I didn't feel like graduating in the kitchen, so they let me go to taft. But I was a daydreamer. I understood my school work, and a lot of school work is repetition, and repetition is where I get bored. So I was a daydreamer, just zoning out, and I got a notebook dropped in front of me, and he said, Whatever you're thinking about, just write it down because you're not here right now. If I let you write it down, will you come back? I was like, All right. So he would give me 30 minutes every day to just write, write, Write, write, write, write, write.

And then next thing I know, I had 120 pages of a handwritten story, and he would read it while I was doing my school work. Then he goes, You ever thought about screenwriting? No. You never thought about it. With your dad, you've never thought about it? No. My mom showed me… Because she keeps all our school projects and things like that. And she showed me all All these projects that I did, these creative writing projects.

You didn't even know you were a writer? You were so spaced out through childhood that you get to college not even knowing your mom showing you the Scrabble. Yes, you've always been a writer.

Yeah, you've always liked writing. I'm like, Oh, yeah? It's nice to meet me. And then they got me a teacher to teach me how to write scripts, Bill Rubenstein. And from there, we changed my handwritten story into script form, script form into an application, and I go to USA. But yeah, I'm oblivious. A lot of people in the world don't know what they're good at because it comes so easy to them. They think the great things are supposed to be hard to do. But when it comes easy to you, you're not paying attention to it. There's so many people that don't know what their talent is. But here's this mural I made, but yeah, it's nothing. You have to pay attention to yourself, and sometimes it takes people on the outside to show you that mirror.

When you Here's the mural, do it as much as you can. What's your childhood look like? Who are your uncles? Who's in the house? What is happening in your childhood when you're the son of a rap star?

First of all, we go to Hawaii all the time, so much so that as a kid, I'm like, Man, Hawaii again? Now as an adult, I miss Hawaii.

I miss her so much. You miss those writers at USA. Now you're all grown up and you realize what you missed on.

I long for Hawaii. But going to premieres, normal. Just another reason why I got to get dressed up. But Laker games, really, the things that are still within me, just experiencing them through childhood, always at Staples Center. Man, I love Staples Center. I'm sorry, crypto, but it's Staples Center. So always at Staples Center, whether that be for concerts or games, King's games, Laker games, or if you're really, really bored, we go to a Clipper game. From there, Meeting cool people, running into cool people. There's not a lot of stars that, I'll say, was the fake uncles. But Uncle Dr. Shaq is for sure, boss. I remember going to my first All-Star game, getting to meet a lot of great players. I remember the first time I met Kobe, lost my mind. It was just one of those things that you appreciate in the moment, but especially now, man, I met Kobe probably five times, and I remember each time. And then the coolest thing that ever happened is one day my dad picked me up from school, which is grandma territory. All right, grandma picks us up from school. So my dad picked me up from school.

That's a big deal. Whispers have already flooded through the school to me. Show your dad's here, your dad's here, your dad's here. So now I'm thinking, what have I done? I feel like I'm doing good in school. What could he possibly be here for? What did I do? And so I walk out to school and he's in the nice car. So we got the four doors and everything. He's in the two doors. He's in the nice car. So now I'm really skeptical. I get in a car and we start driving, and he asked me about my day. Normal conversations. We're definitely not going home because we're going really far. We're driving all the way to Venice, which for a little kid is very far. And we sit at this table at this restaurant, and the rock walks in and sits at the table and just starts talking to my dad. And you have to give a kid at least 24 hours. At least 24 I was like, Hey, so we're going to have lunch with your hero tomorrow. Anything. I was so, for the first time in my life, star struck. I couldn't say a single word.

Nothing would come out of my mouth. And to this day, first of all, he paid. He got a cheeseburger. I got a cheeseburger. I dug that. I got a root beer. He got a Diet Coke. Thought that was weird, but he's the rock. He paid for it. Lady brings him his change, but he out, and I stole his quarter.

Just to have it.

Just to have it.

Stole that woman's money. Yep, for sure. A crime. You committed a crime. Some might say- You committed a crime. Not some might say. You stole that woman's money. That wasn't your money.

It was for me.

That wasn't for you.

That's how the universe works.

That's how the youth of today's universe works. That is not how that one works. You stole that woman's money.

I didn't come here for this, man.

But take me through the Kobe meeting. I want to talk to you about the Rock and wrestling, but are you noticing in the Kobe meeting that Kobe's just as respectful of your father as your father is of Kobe? You're understanding the weight that your father has everywhere, right?

Yes and no. I know my dad does music, my dad does movies. People love him. I didn't grasp how much my dad means to people until I was 18. It took that long. It's just another one of those things. You don't get it until you really get it. When I was 18, I went with my dad on tour, me and my older brother Darryl, we worked on crew. So we're helping with the crates, just anything, helping build the sets with the blow up Ws. We were working as crew, helping with soundcheck, anything that we could do, but we were just on the road. And that took me all the way to Australia for the first time. And in Australia, a dude in the crowd, after we were taking the setlist off the stage, a dude in the crowd waved me over. He had a card. So I grabbed the card and he was like, Tell your dad I was living on the wrong path, gangs, the whole nine, and listening to his music, I became a doctor. And I was like, damn, that's wow. And it hit me that he's my dad, yes, but there are people out in the world that needed him.

And if they didn't have him, who knows where they would be. And from something he probably wrote in the kitchen, just not understanding, well, probably understanding at that time, but just the things that he sends out, they mean so much. Those words mean so much that they could be the make or break thing that leads to a doctor who saves other people's lives. And that right there is the moment I knew. All right, he's a bad man. Oh, my God, he knows.

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You probably get a lot of this. I am of his age, so I will tell you that I'm in college. I'm a freshman at the University of Miami amid those University of Miami football teams that would end up feeling a lot like the Raiders teams that he loves or grew up on when he was just loving the renegade spirit of things. And all I'm playing is straight out of Compton as a freshman in college, and it's introducing me to something culturally that I simply have had no access to. You're opening up a window to the world on the East Coast where I'm in the middle of a black sports rebellion and the rebellion of hip hop music at its edgiest and most aggressive. I'm being introduced It's a culture through your father, basically.

Yeah. And it's that right there, bringing awareness, being the voice of the voiceless, having everyone... Let's look into that. That's where the power really started, where you even got government officials listening in. And you don't see that when you're the kid. You don't recognize it. And even doing the film, in my mind, these are stories I've heard all the time. Getting the perspective of what other people, not from just the Ice Cube side, really warped my brain around what was really happening. To think my dad at that time was 16, 17 is wild.

What do you know about that time in its life? What do you know about, obviously, you've researched extensively for the movie, you got to feel like you really know what your father's growth was?

I mean, you won't know the day by day, but I know growing up in his house, he had both his parents, hard workers, and he wanted that for himself. He's the youngest of his siblings. I look at my little brother Sharif, and he's got the most discipline of any of us. That dude is a machine. So I can only imagine what the younger version of My dad was. And, man, I'm grateful for it. And I'm sure there are some crazy times that I'm so glad he survived because I don't know if you know this, but the '80s was insane. I don't know how any of you all got through it. It doesn't make sense. The '80s was the Wild Wild West.

Well, I mean, you know his stories. You know all of his stories. It's a bit of a miracle in a number of different ways that he got to where it is that he got.

God bless the Latchkey kids. We're wherever you all are, I'm so happy you all made it.

Was there a lot of discipline in the house? You're getting to college daydreaming and not having had to suffer or sacrifice very much, right?

I Don't be bad, all right? Because you're getting disciplined. But my parents always said, If you handle your business, get whatever you want. And my business as a kid is schooling your room. I was terrible at the room one. I was really good at school. And so my parents never really had to get on me until they saw some slip-ups. When they see it, they attack it. I sixth grade going into seventh grade. It was my first time ever going to summer school. Now, the thing with me wasn't that I didn't understand the work or I couldn't comprehend what I was reading. Exciting because when I got to summer school, the two classes that I was there for, I ended up with A's in both classes. I had one of the teachers ask me, What are you doing here? It's hard for me to have six teachers. It was six different personalities, six people like, You might be having a good day, you might be having a bad day. It's just I can't focus that way. I need a one-on-one teacher. I take in information better in a one-on-one setting. So when that was able to be compressed a little bit, I got the AEE.

So then that led to the homeschooling. I got a one-on-one teacher. I'm killing it, crushing it. So that was the The only time they saw a slip up, and I sacrificed public school. That was my biggest sacrifice. When you go to your only school, the only girl in your school is your sister. That's terrible. I love my sister, Dan.

I went to an all boys high school. I was ill-equipped for college. I had no training on how to just talk to a person who was not male. I didn't know how to do it. Didn't know how to do it.

That was probably the biggest one. Yeah. Anytime they saw a slippage in me handling my business. It's that mindset that I still have. It's just you got to handle business. Handle business first. Even now, being an adult, having the success that I do, I don't go out. I don't do any other things that would affect me handling my business.

Okay, but I feel like you're skipping over some stuff where, yeah, of course, don't be bad, and there's an you're going to be responsible. Your dad is to be feared and respected. Your mom is to be feared and respected. But you still came upon discipline. Your little brother is very disciplined. Something was happening in the household. A little rare for a Hollywood family to be together that long, for it to be stable, functioning. It's not the most normal of things.

Yeah, I think it stems from a... There's a part of me that the It's a part of me that stays disciplined or whether it be the drive in my little brother. It's just the choices that we make when it affects the way that we like to live, you just have to turn it off. And it starts with you. Nobody else is going to do it for you. That's what we always were taught. Nobody else is going to do it for you. And if you don't like it, if you're not willing to change it, then you're choosing it. And I guess that's where it stems from, is not wanting to let them down or each other down. We were such a tight family unit. We were terrible at family talks because we don't want to hurt the other one's feelings. We're such a tight-knit family that way. I can't even put a real finger on it besides not wanting to let each other down.

What are the cons of working with family?

You don't want to let them down? I still haven't really worked with him, though. When we started straight out of Compton, he was doing right along, too. So in the beginning, he was an iPad floating around set. There was somebody holding an iPad of him so he can check things out. But by the time he got there, I had my feet wet already. I was rocking. And so then it became just like a player, coach type thing. But I really want to do a film with him and really work with him and see how that feels. I'll tell you one thing. I probably got three songs with my dad. That's crazy. I like writing. I like the aspect of thinking of something that you weren't thinking of. But writing a song, I'd rather pull my hair out. I can't write a song For whatever, I just get in my head, Is it catchy enough? That's not for me. A lot of my choice to go into movies was because it's just not fun for me to do music. It's just not fun. Movies I have fun, for sure.

Three songs?

Yeah, I think. She couldn't make it on her own. Then I think we did another one that's like a an ensemble of four or five artists. I'm pretty sure I did a song with him on one of his albums. No, it was a song that we had that didn't get released. But that's it, yeah. And then I tried the music thing, but I just didn't have the love for it like I do with film, where I'm passionate about it to the point of being competitive. Because If you're going to rap, rap to be the best. Don't rap to just make a quick buck. I wanted to be taken serious and whatever I chose. And with music, I don't think I'm going to take my family name to any higher than what it is. In movies, though, I feel like I can get some new roles for us.

Did you have any imposter syndrome after the first difficult month?

No, I was locked in. I still do get a little bit of imposter syndrome because my biggest flaw, Dan, is that I don't know how great I really am. I'll sit in the trailer, first day of work on every project, and I'll be reading all the things I have to do. And then it sets in of just like, What the hell am I doing What am I doing here? They're going to find out they picked the wrong guy. This is about to be terrible. Why did I choose to do this? And then I get my feet wet, and I'm like, Oh, man, we're going to crush this. We're going to kill this. And it just happens. It's the first day of school. It's all those things creep into your head when something is new. And I don't think I want to get out of that because it keeps me on my toes.

But let me put you in two scenarios. So I put you between 50 Cent and Gerard Butler on Den of Thiefs. You feel like you belong?

Yeah. Gerard is intimidating, but at that point, I was just so happy to be doing it. That was my third movie ever. So I was just so happy to be there. I was like, Yeah, let's do it. I got to shoot guns. Not in the movie, but they made me weapons trained anyway. And yeah, I had Ingrid goes West, had Sundance. I was feeling good with myself at that time.

Okay, but I want to get to the next one where I'm not going to believe you. If you tell me, even if you have your father's confidence, Michael B. Jordan and Jamie Fox-Man, I'm not even really in that movie.

I'm not even really messing with them. I got to meet Mike and Brie Larson one time. I didn't even see Jamie.

But your name is in lights around them.

In that moment, no. At that moment, it's like, All right, it's great that we're in this. And in those situations, my thought process is, When you're on camera, you got to steal it. You got to steal it. You have to stand out because you're around Titans right now. You got to steal it. And how I've always looked at it or given an example, when you're not the lead, when you're not the guy that necessarily is pushing the movie, everybody wants to be Luke Skywalker. Han Solo gets the girl. Han Solo gets the car. Han Solo gets the Sidekick with Chuy. Hans Solo is pretty dope. When everybody wants to be Woody, Buzz light is the coolest toy in the world. So if you got to support, just make sure you steal the show, whether that be 10th on the call sheet or number 2 on the call sheet, wherever. If you steal the show, if you stand out, you'll do good for yourself. And there was a scene where I shake Jamie's hand. I stole that scene from him. I ate you up, Jamie. I ate you up, bro. Stole that. That shake. You saw that shake?

Holding back tears? No, nothing about that.

He still is haunted I don't buy that. It's as memorable as Schwarzenegger and Ventura and Predator, the way that you shook his hand. He underestimated you because he thought that- You thought. He put his guard down for a second, and you took it from him.

I thought it was sweet around here.

Tell me the best stories around Cocaine Bear.

How I got it is pretty funny. I'm on Twitter a lot. Some might say too much. I don't listen to them. I saw Elizabeth Banks gets the rights to Cocaine Bear. I'm like, All right, this is probably a movie about some runner. They called the bear. No, not at all. It's about a bear on cocaine, 100 %. So I retweeted it and I said, Just take my money now. I'm on my way. And she saw the tweet, hits them like, Hey, I think we could get O'Shea. So I get a call like, Hey, you want to be in it? Yeah. So they sent me the script. And this is why I love Elizabeth Banks. Nobody can ever tell me anything about Elizabeth Banks, because I'm reading the script and I couldn't help but notice on page 96, Elizabeth, I don't make it. I die. She was like, You don't want to die? I'm like, No. No, I don't want to die. She said, All right, you don't die. That was it. That's not usually all those conversations. She was so chill. She was like, All right, well, Kerry Russell plays like a nurse, so we'll just say she saves you.

That's how you try to get Cocaine Bear, too, Dan. That's how you do it, folks.

Congratulations. That's excellent work there. You're making them look really easy in Hollywood. It's unusual. What you're going to do is ask.

What they're going to tell you no? Hey.

But you hadn't read the script or anything.

No, I read it, but I just didn't. I didn't even die by the bear. I got shot Ray Liotta. And so I was like, Yeah, I can't do that. Elizabeth was like, You don't have to. That's why I love Elizabeth Banks.

The last time we talked to you on our show, you were explaining that you had called your father from the set. They were making you wait a long time, and he told you to just leave, and you're like, I'm not you. I can't just leave. What are some of the things that you would say you have learned from your upbringing?

Knowing your worth, knowing I'm respectful, I'm easy to work with, but I'm not a pusher. Know when you're being played, knowing to trust your instincts a little bit of like, This doesn't feel right. At that time in my life, on the first Dent of Thiefs, third film ever, I was so bent on good report cards. Good report cards. Don't make waves. Everybody already thinks that you're just coming here thinking you're the man anyway. In actuality, I just want to work, and I am happy to be here. You don't have to be happy to be here after a while. After a while, you got to know that they need you right now. They could not want you, but they still need you. So it took It took some time. It took a lot of different sets, a lot of ways how people work on things and learning, learning through trial by fire. But then you get to a point where like, no, it's cool to say no. It's cool to be like, That doesn't work for me. And at the end of the day, filmmaking is a collaborative effort to make a beautiful project, and you I got to make sure you get yours, too.

And so I don't wait around no more. I'm 10 years in, baby. I got some veteran privileges.

And it's also not nearly as glamorous as people think it is, right? You're waiting around a lot. There's a lot of boredom in it.

The movie is great. Making it, it's an effort. And also, I know as an actor, you're the one in front of the camera. If the The movie's bad. They don't really think about, Well, who wrote this? No, they think about, That O'Shea movie was terrible. So, yeah, you're the face of the watch. But the gears that make the watch that really... I'm in movies. The people who are making the movies, those people got my utmost respect. Every crew I've ever worked with, I made sure that I'm approachable, that I thank them for what they do because they really have the less glamorous spot. And when the movie is terrible, they're not really blamed. But when the movie is amazing, they're not really applauded either. So shout out to the gears of the watch, man. Every department, whether it's costumes arguing with sound or props arguing with costumes because the watch is a prop. It's not really a piece of clothing, hair and makeup. Everybody Everybody, the grips, everybody who transpose, especially. Shout out to Transpo. But all those guys, man, those guys are really making the movie.

Can you really not turn off your brain and just watch a movie and say, I enjoyed that anymore? You're thinking about costume design and how it is. You're not telling the time, you're looking at the pieces of the watch.

Yeah. The last time I got to where I was like, I'm not I'm not even... Being a fan was Deadpool Wolverine. Deadpool Wolverine, I'm just like, I just enjoyed the ride. That was a fun experience, man. I sat front row in the theater. I haven't done that forever.

So you were transported. It's probably the child in you a little bit. You finally got to be a child. You probably know too much at this point.

Yeah, I know too much, man. I've seen some things.

That's funny, though. It's really hard to transport It hurts you in a movie.

Yeah, because it's like- The mechanics of it are too fascinating to you. I look at acting different because of Jason Mitchell. Jason Mitchell, who played Easy E and Straight Outta Compton, he's the one who taught me how to look at acting like a sport instead of just playing pretend. Because we'll watch something together and he was like, Man, he killed him, or like, Man, he got him right there, or just he looks at it like boxing. And so when I see two actors going toe to toe, I'm like, Man, that was a good round. So it's just that competitive spot. And that's not how you're You shouldn't be going into a scene like, I'm about to kill this dude. You're only focused on you. But it's just something about a scene where somebody either has a monolog or something where you're like, Man, he crushed. And you can see it almost like you can see a dunk. That's where you really, as a peer, start to become fans of people.

Competition in sports, your father's a bit of an insane person when it comes to just-I'm living with Dr..

Sews, Dan.

His fandom is crazy. The business, entrepreneurship of what he's done, I'm not going to say trying to do, but I know what he's trying to do and how he's trying to do it. It just It seems like ambition that's not necessary at this point in your life, hardship that's not necessary. Why the work ethic? Why is it important for you to work hard when you don't have to?

Because he hasn't stopped working. He hasn't stopped working. And also I feel like I'm not nowhere near where I want to be. And even when I get there, I'm going to want something else. I was at a point in my career, 2019 in October. I was in my apartment. Little did I know the whole world was going to change the next year. But I was in my apartment. I might have had… I might have been a little inebriated, perhaps. I'm an American citizen. I'm fine.

You're allowed to be a little inebriated in your home? I'm allowed to be a little inebriated.

A couple of libations.

Maybe a lot You're also allowed to be a lot inebriated.

So I'm in my apartment, and I was down on myself. I felt like my career was a little stagnant, like I had plateaued. And it's because I don't need much. I don't need much to make myself happy. So I'm happy, but I became content, and I wanted more for myself. And so I started having Having these thoughts and these emotions and scrolling through Twitter. And then something told me, Kobe follows you. Dm Kobe. Kobe's retired. Kobe's been retired for three years now, and he got up, won an Oscar. He's about to do the... That's when he had the children's book out and the body armor thing and the Mamba Academy. And so I hit Kobe and I was like, Dude, you You've done everything, and you still get up and you still want more. What pushes you? I feel like I'm stuck. So what pushes you? Give me some books. Give me some mantras, some movies. He gave me his number. Now, I'm drunk.

Okay, well, it's escalated since we were talking. It was maybe inebriated. I'm going to let you know right now. You're slurring in your hammer.

I am drunk. And my first thought was, I cannot talk to Kobe right now. I cannot talk to Kobe. This can't be my first phone call with Kobe. This is my hero. I texted him. I was like, Hey, I got you locked in. I'm like, Please don't call me. He was like, I'll call you in a couple of days. From there, call me in a couple of days. I'm waiting, waiting, waiting.

You're waiting for the call?

Yeah. He said, I'll call you in a couple of days. A couple of days is very vague. I'm like, All right. I'm just waiting every day for Komi to call. I did a table read for this show that It worked, but didn't work. But I got two of my best friends from it called The Now. I'm driving, I'm riding in the Uber, and then my phone rings. It says, Goat. It says, Goat. And I'm like, Oh, my God, today is the day. So I tell the driver, Hey, can you turn down the radio? I got to talk to Kobe. And he goes, Kobe Bryant? I said, Yeah, man.

You had to brag to the Uber driver.

Keep it quiet in here, all right? Kobe Bryant is about to talk to me. So I talked to Kobe. And Kobe told me that feeling of I haven't done enough or that all the accomplishments that I have don't mean much, and that just how hard I am on myself. Keep it. Keep that. He said, That's what I feel every day. I feel like we're not done or feel like I ain't done nothing. And this dude won five championships, MVP, gold medalist, all the nines, all-star games, all of that. Nothing. Doesn't mean nothing. He said that he paces. I pace as well. Throughout his house, your mind is always working, and you have to hold on to that feeling if you want to keep going forward. We talked about our dads making the decision to go in our father's footsteps. He told me that your parents are never going to want you to go through anything, and you got to ignore that. You got to do stuff for you sometimes and see where you're going to end up from, and whether that be learning that, All right, maybe we shouldn't do that, or you might like where you end up.

But they're always going to want to protect you because that's their job. So you got to know when. You got to do something for me, and you got to know when to take that advice because they're the people that are going to love you the most. And we talked for 24, 25 minutes And then hung up. And I was like, All right, man, talk to you later. Some text here and there. I ran it to him at a Just Mercy screening in Philadelphia. And that was like November I think. So all this is from October 2019, January 2020, he was gone. And if I didn't have, even though it's a bit of liquid courage. If I didn't have that courage to hit Kobe, I would have never had that conversation with him, and I would have never had those words with Kobe. So I can't let Kobe down. He had to tell me that. He had to tell me that. So I have to hold on to this feeling. And so far, it's helped me make some good decisions. I've run into It's some wild decisions, but it's just something from him that I'll always hold on to.

People don't understand how hard it is to make a successful living in here, correct? They assume you've been in a movie, therefore he's going to have 30 years of movies, right?

Yeah. No. After I did Straight Out of Compton, I didn't work for a year. No one called. There was a couple of script offers, but nobody cared. Nobody called.

Nobody? No, dude. I mean, you crushed it.

My God. Thank you. I'm like, my phone about to blow up. It's yada, yada, yada. I'm just sitting waiting. We got a couple of nibbles with some scripts, but I'm like, it's a whack.

But you think at this point, you're assuming, right? As soon as this movie gets to 200 million or you're hearing the numbers, where are the offers? I got to get more agents, right?

I reached a point where I was confused, and I had to go out and get something. I had a movie fall in my lap. I went to some award show where I was presenting, and I saw Aubrey Plaza in the green room, and I'm going to go talk to Aubrey. Then these two lovely ladies stop me and tell me that their grandson loved straight out of Compton. And we take the picture, and Aubrey's gone. So then I go on Twitter, as I do, and talk about how I almost met Aubrey Plaza, so the night's going great. And she sees that, hits me. So I was like, Hey, I got this film. I need you to do it. I was like, I'm not sure that's how it works, but let's set up a meeting. She gives me her number. I text her. I say, Hey, it's Batman. She goes, Great. And then from there, we set up a meeting at some bar that neither of us knew. And she goes, How did you like the script? I said, What script? She said, The script I sent you. So you didn't send me a script. What's my email if you sent me a script?

So she goes, Look, why did you tell me you were Batman? I was like, I don't know, man. I was trying to be cool. I'm Batman. I don't know. She goes, You're doing in the movie is obsessed with Batman. So I told everybody that you said yes. All right. Now I got to do it. Now I have to do it. That's too funny. And I was Ingrid goes West.

Wait a minute. You got to be shitting me. You couldn't get work? You were typecast as he looks like Ice Q.

Of course, he could play his dad. Of course, he could play his dad. Jason and Cory got to do Skull Island.

I was Curious.

It was like Eazy E and Dr. Dre are in King Kong, and here I am just watching the account get lower. I was hot. Then this lovely movie, Ingrid goes West, by the grace of God. I get Ingrid goes West. Ingrid goes West takes me to Sundance.

I get Variety had me. Wait a minute. Was your career dead?

I was done. I was about to be on Sepulvita.

I was done, bro. Your career was dead out of crushing straight out of Compton.

You thought- Academy Award nominated.

You were getting cruddy scripts.

A lot of horror. No disrespect to the horror community. Not really a lot of awards there. Man, I was hot, bro. I was hot for a year, scared to death.

I mean, but how could you not be? That doesn't even make any sense.

It doesn't make sense because it's like, of course, he could play his dad. What are we going to do? Just find a movie where we can't get his dad and make him do it?

But even in that, there's a career. No, I was done.

It was over. If it wasn't for Ingrid Goes, Matt Spice.

Wait a minute. But how is that even possible? Clearly, anybody watching Straight Out Compton could say, That is well- acted. Never mind that my introduction to you was like, Holy shit, how does that look so much like Ice Cube when he was younger. How is that possible? That's my introduction to you. But how does Hollywood not notice? No. Hollywood marketing agents of a certain age that would have grown up as I did on Straight Out of Compton would have also been like, That's That's good acting.

I have no... I got no clue. The only people that I... I would have my meetings and they would go nowhere, or I would do auditions. Shout out to Carmen Cuba. I love you forever. But I would have my auditions. You rarely get auditions, bro. I'm going to just be real. It's such a rarity to get those anyway. But I was doing the audition thing, doing all that. But the only people that... The only thing that had a little Okay, this might be something, was Den of Thiefs. Christian Gutegast was somebody who was looking for me after straight out of Compton. And Angry Goes West, bro. After that, I That's where it was looking for me. And so it's not just a set thing to do.

So take me through what is the funniest or most embarrassing of the rejections in retrospect when you think you're going to catapult now to stardom, and instead, you're nine months in and you to meet somebody at whatever, at a diner, to be told that you can't have this sixth role.

There was a movie that I was supposed to do with my boy, Thomas Middleditch, that never got off the ground at Fox. I forget the name of it. If he was here, he'd tell me. There's also a situation where... The reason why... Carmen Q. All right, she's a casting director. I love Carmen Cuba because Carmen Cuba is so real with me. I was auditioning for Alien Covenant. And she, in the middle, after I do one audition, the second time going around, she goes, Shay, have you seen Alien? Yeah. So what happens in every alien? I said, Aliens hit the ship, and then she goes, And then what's at the end? I said, Oh, yeah, there's usually a lady that's the only survivor. She said, Exactly. You don't want to die yet. I said, Oh, yeah, I did tell you that. Like, Yeah, you're going to die horribly in this. Is this what you want to do? No. Have a good day, Sha. Thanks, Carmen. Thank you so much. And she just looks out. So that was probably my funiest audition. But, man, I've auditioned for plenty of films. I auditioned for the Hot Solo film.

Got real close, real close. But my man, Donald Glover got it. God bless him.

It's pretty good, too.

Pretty good, too. It's super talented. He's super talented. But for about three months, took every song off my phone. Every single one.

Every single one. Vengeance. Just straight vengeance.

It's just something about him. And you had a lot of Charlie's Gambino you were playing? Yeah, I love Chider Scambino. I love Glover since he did Derek Comedy on YouTube. I'm a fan of him.

But you hate him right now.

No, right now. I love him.

I'm saying right now. At that time, trying to be Lando Calrissian?

Yeah. Couldn't stand him. Hated his guts.

Something else I think you couldn't stand was your name for how long. O'shea. O'shea was not a name you liked, right?

I have liked my name. It's just It's just hard when you're trying to make a name for yourself and you got the guy's name, looked like the guy, and your first job is playing the guy. So it has its challenges. But I've never met... Actually, I take that back because I have met another O'Shea, and I wanted to kill him. I was like, What? What do you mean? They're like, Yeah, my name's O'Shea, too. You think I give a damn? So? You're named after my dad. There's no way your mom was Let me get this name of Irish descent and just pass it on to your Black ass. Yeah, I don't like that.

I don't dig that. At one time, you didn't like being the only O'Shea, and then you get to 17 years old and you- I'm the man. I need to be the only O'Shea.

I'm the only one you know. No disrespect if you see this, but me and my dad had to go to a Celtics game because Jalen Brown is a friend of my dad's. And so we said courtside at a disgusting Boston Celtics versus Houston Rockets game. I am in Laker gear head to toe Courtside because... And they had a dude named O'Shea on the team. He I'm saying, My name's O'Shea, too. I could have threw my chair. Give a damn. I don't care, man. You Celtic. If he was a Laker, it'd be really cool. But no, man. You all are named after my dad. I don't even know where my name came from. My grandmother, I was like, Where did O'Shea? It was either that or Orenthal. So I just shut the hell up there. Why is it between Muhammad and McLovin? How do we get down here? So I just tell people my name came from a hat. They just pulled it out.

But you don't actually know the story.

No, but it was better than Orenthal. That's a better story. Yes, that is correct. What a coin flip for me.

Is your father's shadow in any way a burden? Because you always speak of it so reverently, eloquently, you're always loving and kind. Is it a shadow that you have at any point wanted out from under?

It's a shadow. Shadow is a third-party When you're in it, you don't think like that. And when you start to listen to other people, you think that you're supposed to. You think that you're supposed to think like the whole, the coattails, the shadow, all that, the mountain to climb, all that, it doesn't exist. The only thing that exists is your family's name. And I look at my family's name or legacy, whatever you What do you want to call it? I look at it as a physical thing that I have to push forward so that this name goes further through time than just this one individual. And that is a torch that you just have to keep passing on. And so that's what I don't look at it like a shadow. I look at it like this Jackson name is going to reach everywhere. It has reached mountains so high in music, and I feel like we go higher in movies. So that's what I'm going to do. I want Adam Sandler, God bless him. Adam Sandler took an MTV Award from my dad one time, and I hated his guts immediately. I love Adam Sandler, but I really wanted that popcorn.

When my dad wins awards, he brings them home, and I get to look at them, and I really wanted that MTV popcorn. I know, prestigious, I know. But when straight out of conflict happened, it happened. It just happened to fall on the 25th anniversary of the MTV Movies Awards. That popcorn I wanted since I was a kid. The first time that it went through my family's doors, it had my name on it, and that meant something to me. So that right there, I was like, Every award that they wouldn't give my guy, I'm going to go and grab them. So that's There's no shadow. It's only pushing the name. I got the name in Star Wars right now. I got the name in Godzilla. I got our name in places it hasn't been before, and I want to continue to do that.

Can you explain to me why and where all of that comes from? Like the need to push your father's name forward as your father is a symbol for Black pride, for Black excellence, for pride and excellence in general. Can you explain to me? Why is it so important to you?

Because it's my name, too. Junior. There's no heavier two letters in the alphabet put together than J-R. He's even had moments where he has thought about me having my own identity, which I still feel that I do. We're vastly different people, but still the same ideologies about how you're represented or how you look because the things that we do in the media that we are both in, the things that we do are going to be out there forever. They don't go away. So it has to be something that when you look back, you can be proud of. And I'm not cowering away from the challenge. And it's important because if you push... When the name has weight, things move for it. And the more I can add weight to that physical thing, it'll make things easier for my daughter. It'll make things easier for my siblings. When you have one titan Carrying the name, doing all those things, if you can have two, then you get a third. So I just have to keep it going forward. And with my kid, I'm not... If she don't I want to do entertainment, that's not going to do anything to me.

Entertainment is... It sucks. It sucks. It's a blessing. But there's just certain things people don't understand when they're on the outside that your privacy, that's your sacrifice. It's gone. The mistakes you made magnified everywhere. You can be the main character of the Internet, which is scary as hell. You never be the main character of the Internet. So it is It's a jellyfish. It's beautiful to look at. It looks amazing. You get wrapped up in it, it will kill you. So if my kid doesn't want to do entertainment, I'm not going to put that on her. But whatever she does decide to do, I'm going to help with it. But as far as this business, I have to push this name for it as far as I can to make life easier for her.

Her name's Jordan, right? Jordan. No pressure of name there, right? She's not named after Michael. No.

Her real name is Kobe Jordan. Yeah, I know. Listen.

What an asshole. What an asshole her father is.

Her name is Kobe Jordan.

You didn't do that.

Listen, her name is- You didn't do that. Her name is Kobe Jordan. But when she was born, her mom had a dog named Kobe, so She didn't want to put the Kobe on it. But we both know. So when she's 18, I'm going to explain her this story. So I'm like, If you want to go get your name, go get your name. Her name is Kobe Jordan. I have a tweet about it.

You've mentioned a couple of times now that your father's got you in music, but you're coming after him in movies. I suspect in the home, if I know anything about the trash-talking family around sports at all that you've shown me from the outside, I suspect you've already told your father that if you have not surpassed him, you will surpass him in movie making. Do I have that wrong? Are you too respectful to do that?

He's my biggest fan. He's my biggest fan. I did straight out of Compton. He said, It's like watching my son win the Super Bowl with my team. So he's so happy for me. But I will say, when I got Godzilla, he did just happen to switch agencies. I'm just saying. But he's my biggest support. He's always had my back. But between you and I- Don't tell anybody else.

It's just you and me here.

I got to get that for dinner themes. He's He's done trilogies. I don't think he's done a fourth one on anything.

Got to get that fourth dinner. I could take him out.

Anyway, good talk.

Make Kobe Jordan proud of her father. Last question on the way out. I will tell the people again. His passion project of the moment is the podcast, No Contest, wrestling, your obsession with wrestling, your need to have a microphone and speak of the daily story lines. Where does it come from and why is it so important to you? Why does it matter?

I've always been a fan. Me and my friends, we have pay-per-view watch parties. Wrestling is our thing. It's been our thing. When the strike happened, when the actor's strike happened, it was immediately after I finished filming Den of Thiefs 2. I had a show out called Swagr. Kevin Durant produced Apple TV, the whole nine.

Loosely based on him, right?

Yeah. Things had to change because of the pandemic, so it was like... But it's very loosely based on it. So the second season aird during the strike, we can't promote. Like, sag rules. We can't promote any of our work. So it just happened to be just word of mouth of people telling people where to find it, and yada, yada, yada. But none of us can retweet it, and none of us can speak on it. And we just had to watch it. Just do something on your own, hopefully, because respect to Apple, but they don't put trailers on a lot of things. It's not a lot of, go here to see this show from Apple. The marketing is just not there. And so when Swagger happened, we're just watching it. It got up to Apple's top four. So we're like, all right, let's go. We're so happy for it, and then they canceled us. And so it was like, wow. And now those phone calls or that thought process of another season is gone. And I'm not really having any meetings with movies because everybody's on strike, so they're just fizzling out. Plans that I had to do other The show's gone.

Eight months, no income. Every job that you had lined up, slowly dying in front of you. And I was scared. I got scared again. That fear, that will put that eternal fire I was telling you about, that fear will put that right in you. And I was scared again. And so I had to look at what am I good at? Like I said, the things that you're talented at or the things that you could probably make a career out of is something you're not really paying attention to. So I had to look inward. What do I do every day that doesn't feel like work? I talk shit on Twitter. I talk shit on Twitter about wrestling every day for free. So let's get paid to do that. So I was just going to go on Twitch or some shit with my sister and just ramble about wrestling and do it that way. But then, by the Grace of God, Rich Rich Eisen called and was like, Hey, so I'm putting together a couple of different podcasts for the network. And T. J. Jefferson, my tag team partner, my dog, he suggested you for a wrestling show.

And at first, I wanted to do something with my sister. So I had plans with her, so I didn't want to do it. He was like, All right, well, if you change your mind. About a couple of months later, He called back and was like, I need you. We got to do this. T. J. Won't budge. He says, You got the motion. You know what you're talking about. He thinks you can do it. So I was like, All right, I'll do it. We worked out a deal. We found a way. I'm grateful for my man T. J. We have our balance. I'm more of the new school. He's more of the old school. He's a little bit calmer than I am. I'm a little aggressive, I admit it. You have to admit these things. And I've loved every minute of it, and we've got some motion in these wrestling streets. Tony Khan invited T. J. Out to their pay-per-view, all in. Triple H, me and him, have had a Rapport. He's invited me to a Saturday Night main event. I'm going to go to a survivor series. I'm going to miss Summer Slam because it's close to my daughter's birthday, and I don't play that shit.

I'm a good dad. And then Mania. They've hooked us up with Mania, Royal Rumbble. And so it's been a beautiful thing. I've gotten to meet a lot of cool people. Definitely will say hanging out with a bunch of fit people all the time has really gotten me into working out. And if I ever get to the point where I, like Luka Donchik, I'm on the cover of Men's Health. I'm going to tell the truth. Working out sucks. It's garbage, and you should do it. That's probably what the cover is going to say.

Okay, that's what you got for Men's Fitness. You're looking Looking at those eight months, though. Those stayed with you, those eight months of no money when you thought- Everything's going to work out again. But you didn't think everything was going to work out. You thought those eight months, it was going to be raining money and opportunities. Never mind no money and opportunities.

No money. It's just how the game is. Even right now, Dinn of Thiefs 2, January, number one movie in the country, two weeks, all of that. Right now, I'm Just focus on wrestling. Don't let it bother you. And the big fish will come. But I'm hitting up these Indies, baby, because of Ingrid goes West. That scary time after straight out of Compton, Ingrid goes West. That Indie changed my life. If it If it was for Ingrid goes West, I wouldn't get Obe-Wan Kenobi if it wasn't for Ingrid goes West. Those are words Deborah Chou told me.

But that was total luck. It's total luck.

That's all entertainment is, baby. Right place, But that's legitimately, you thought you had bad luck because somebody wanted to take a picture with you.

And then largely a misunderstanding becomes, I have to take this role, whether I wanted or not.

It was great, though. Yeah, it is. And they let me do my thing in that. I'm trying not to the Ingle Girls West.

No Contest wrestling is the name of the podcast. He is delightful. Thank you for sharing that delight with us. Wait. Uh-oh. What's happening here?

Got you a gift, man.

You got me a gift? Oh, thank you. Look at this.

Ice Cube, Bubblehead Night.

But wait a minute. This doesn't look like Ice Cube. Who is this here?

Hold on, man. Listen, I don't know what the factory got, but they put the moles on his Ice Cube, baby. Put them eyebrows. Yeah, pick me up.

Wait a minute.

Hold on, bro.

I don't mean to be mean about a gift, but that looks more like a slim down Gabriel Iglesias than it does like you or your father.

I don't know what they do at the Bubblehead factory. But here's a limited In addition, dodger bobble head. Enjoy.

I am being rude by not accepting your gift. Why have you given me a bobble head of a Mexican man in a dodger uniform?

Listen, I'm not going Did you say he said the same thing, but we are grateful. We are grateful.

I was moved by your father walking out onto the field representing Los Angeles World Series, and you told me, These people have made him.

It's been a great conversation. Thank you, sir. Always, man.. Always, man.