Transcript of Kaitlyn's Baby | Episode 1: The barking dog

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A BBC World Service and CBC Podcast production.

A warning. This story contains references to medical emergencies, including baby loss. We also deal with sexual assault, and there is some strong language. Please take care. It's a Friday night in November 2022.

Amy Perry is at home in a town just west of Toronto, Canada, and she's sick.

I was fighting an RSV virus that was going around, so I was gonna be home not doing anything.

She was spending most of her time in bed, bored and scrolling on Facebook.

I manage a Facebook group for local birth workers called Placenta Squad.

I just love that name, Placenta Squad. Amy, along with most of the Placenta Squad, is a doula.

I'm coming up on 8 years. Yeah. I've been a doula for a long time. I've attended over a 100 births now and it's been a ride.

Doulas work with pregnant people. They're not medical professionals. They assist people through labor and delivery by offering emotional support. The focus is on the woman, not the baby. They will help with massage or position or talk you through the pain or when things start to get too overwhelming.

And they're different from midwives. A midwife has medical training. Often a doula will work alongside midwives or doctors, but unlike someone with medical expertise, they cannot give or prescribe medication.

It just made sense for me. I could make my own hours. I could work around my health. I could have my own business. I could be here when my kids were little, and it made a lot of sense for us.

I'm the child of 2 parents of chronic illness. Like, I've grown up taking care of people, and this is very natural for me.

Doula work can involve helping women through trauma. In fact, many doulas come to this line of work through their own bad experiences. So it's a point of pride that they take on the really hard cases. And that night in November, Amy is scrolling on the Placenta Squad page when she sees a post from her friend and fellow doula, Katie. Katie is working with a client in crisis who says her pregnancy is the result of an assault.

Here's Katie.

She told me that, you know, generally that she didn't have family or friends to support her and that it was just like as traumatic a scenario as it possibly could be, because she had just found out that her baby didn't have a heartbeat as well.

This client's name was Caitlin Braun, and she was 24 years old. And she would now have to birth a stillborn baby. Caitlin found Katie through social media. After sending a message and setting things up, Katie and Caitlin connected on the phone. Caitlin said she lived with her mom, but they didn't have the best relationship.

Her life had been hard and full of neglect.

She said basically like she is just kind of a victim of the system, if you will, and had gone through like years of different forms of abuse, and just was like somebody that had fallen through the cracks at kind of every point along the way.

This is November 2022. Remember COVID? Much of our world was online or by phone, and that includes doula work. So when labor started, it was Katie on the phone with Caitlin.

She ended up having contractions while I was on the phone with her, like, working through contractions. They were timed out properly. When things would get more intense, her cognitive abilities would come and go, which is very normal. When her labor progressed, like, she would be throwing up.

It's at this point that Cady has to go to her day job. So she tags in Amy from the placenta squad, who's sick in bed but able to support Caitlin through what is bound to be an emotional and difficult birth of a stillborn baby.

We really spent most of that day on phone calls. She told me that she had earbuds in her ears so she could be hands free and that her phone was just in her pocket. And, you know, I was honestly in the same situation, just walking around the house, phone in my pocket, kind of puttering around, doing some cleaning while I was coaching through contractions. Well, coaching through, a stillbirth really isn't much different than coaching through any other delivery. And when the contractions start, you know, we remind them that there's that she's safe, that she's in good hands, that there's people here to help her, that she's not alone, that she's gonna get to hold her baby soon.

Caitlin had mentioned to Amy that she was naming her child Eden.

We used the name Eden, both of us, regularly. She would say things like, I'm gonna get to hold you soon, Eden. You were brought into my life for a reason. We're gonna get through this together. She would say things like, you're gonna be so beautiful.

I would remind her that, you know, she's a good mom, that she's doing the best thing that she can do. There was a moment where she questioned whether she could call herself a mom, and I reassured her that, of course, you can call yourself a mom. This is your baby.

While it might sound like a young woman having to deliver a stillborn baby that was conceived through rape could not possibly get more tragic, The truth of this story is devastating in a completely different way.

Well, it took us a little bit to actually figure out what actually happened. And to be honest, I still don't fully have those answers.

I've reported on a lot of heart wrenching stories. Social workers who exploited vulnerable kids, ponzi schemers who stole life savings. I've spent the last year and a half immersed in Caitlin's world. And this is 1 of the most complex stories I've ever covered. A story that has puzzled psychiatrists and legal systems.

A story that contorts moral and ethical instincts. And a perpetrator who takes up the valuable time of a stressed and overloaded medical system, a woman who took so much from people whose job is to give. The people you will hear from never want any of this to happen again, but no 1 really knows what they would have done differently.

We always were asking why. I mean, from the very first moment, I wanted to know why. So it's a it's a long story. Settle in. For

CBC and the BBC World Service, I'm Sarah Trelevin. And this is the con, Caitlin's baby. Episode 1, the barking dog. Hour after hour, Amy helps Caitlin with the early stages of labor. Amy constantly on the phone, encouraging, listening, crying, everything and anything Caitlin needs.

Yeah. I mean, it sounded exactly like a contraction. It had a build up. It had a high point. It had to come down.

They were well spaced apart. You know, there there are some very subtle signs as birth workers that we can see that made sense to us, the way her voice just got a little in her chest when she was feeling crampy or when she would tell me the different, positions she would find herself just naturally going into through the contractions. She would tell me she was on her hands and knees or that she was squatting, that she was sitting on a yoga ball. But after quite a number of hours of this, I asked, like, do you specifically want to lean into this? Like, do you want the tips and tricks to, like, really get this rolled over into an actual active labor?

I was really coaching on how to move her body through the contractions. I was really focused on things like making sure her mood stayed as positive as possible because we know that that negativity just works against us due to the labor process so we were making jokes, we were building a rapport, we sort of learned quickly we have the same sense of dark humor, we, were making comments about our families and she was asking questions about me and getting to know me and I was doing the same with her.

Here is this lonely young woman traumatized by a sexual assault that led to a pregnancy. A baby that died in utero at around 32 weeks, and she is now birthing her child alone. She tells Amy and Katie that her family has abandoned her, that they blamed her for the rape and didn't support her decision to keep the baby. In fact, Amy says that Caitlin told her all sorts of intimate things, which isn't unusual for doulas.

The 1 thing that really stood out to me that I was tiptoeing very carefully around when talking about getting the labor started was some of these more like pseudo sexual type ways that we can move labor along. I was very informed from the beginning that this was a pregnancy via assault, you know, in a, when we're dealing with like a loving couple, it's not all that weird or awkward to talk about how things like nipple stimulation or masturbation or pumping can move people over into active labor. She asked me specifically if nipple stimulation and pumping or masturbation would help. And I never would have offered that information in this situation, but she asked the question. So I answered, I was honest and I said, yes.

And that was when she told me that she was doing some of those things through contractions. And I'm a doula. Like it's, this is normal for me in these situations. I was a little shocked that someone who had been through something like that would be okay with moving in this direction, but, you know, she had told me she was, so that was where we went.

Caitlin has been in labor for nearly 40 hours, and Amy was hardly sleeping, hardly eating.

We were getting to a point where, like, contractions were getting stronger, where they were getting closer together and longer, more powerful feeling through what I was listening to over the phone. And I said, you know, I'm I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with the fact that you're at home, and I think we need to start getting you over to a hospital.

Amy is sick, so she can't meet Caitlin

at the hospital. And Amy's friend and doula partner, Katie, is at work. But let's figure this out. I'd rather you be there alone than be at your house alone. And, she right away was like, yep, I'll grab my keys.

I'll get in the car. And I was like, woah, woah, woah. Like, you're not driving yourself to the hospital. I'll call a cab for you if you can't make the call. I'll help you set up an Uber.

Finally, after what felt like a lot more work than it should have, Amy convinces Caitlin to call a car.

She'd say, okay, it's 11 minutes away. And I said, okay, great. We'll start counting them down. That's like, in my mind, we have a contraction every like 5 minutes. So I was saying things like, that's 2 contractions.

We can do that. Right? That's 2 contractions till the, till the Uber gets here. You know, I know it's going to take you some time to I know you think you can get to the door in 10 minutes, but like you're in labor. This is going to take you time.

Let's start getting our shoes on. Let's start getting the things we need. Let's make sure our stuff's at the door. We'll stop for contractions. But that 10 minutes would go by and there'd still be nobody.

And she'd go, oh, he's still now he's 12 minutes away. And I'd be like, okay, well maybe he's picking somebody up on the way. Like, I don't know. I'm not there. I can't see her phone.

And I'm like, okay, did you do everything right? Yes. Another 10 minute goes by. Once we get it 30 minutes, she tells me that she forgot to hit the confirm ride button. And so that's why the time had been dancing.

And and so she said, yep. It's for sure hit now. He's definitely on his way. I have a a time he's gonna be here. And I am honestly like freaking out at this point.

Like contractions are strong. And in my head, I'm picturing her having a stillborn baby in the doorway of her house when an Uber driver pulls up. And I I'm losing it. So I asked if I can call an ambulance for her. And she said no.

I don't know her address at this point either. So even if I was to call 911, I don't have an address to send the ambulance.

Back and forth they go until finally the car arrives.

So she gets in the Uber. I hear, like, what's like, I hear a car accelerating and decelerating. She's speaking to somebody else in the car. I can't hear them because I'm just just in her earbuds and but she's speaking as if there's somebody else in the car, and we're even making jokes about how this will be the story of his Uber career.

Amy feels a wave of relief once Caitlyn makes it to

the hospital. So we get to the hospital. I hear you know, you you hear when people are walking through different environments. So I could hear, you know, it sounded like a lobby. I could hear what sounded like more enclosed space, like an elevator.

We did a contraction in the lobby. She was working her way up. She was excited that there was nobody in the elevator. And when she got to labor and delivery, she told me she was gonna hang up so that she could deal with that and she was going

right in. When they finally reconnect, there's news. Caitlin's labor is progressing. She's 4 centimeters dilated, which for Amy means she's now in active labor and can be admitted to the hospital. But oddly, Caitlin is being sent home.

They wouldn't admit her until she was 5 centimeters, which sounds weird to me, but I'm not there. And that she was being sent home with the promise of Pitocin the next morning.

Pitocin is a drug that induces labor.

The next day, I spent the entire Saturday alone at my house on the phone with her continuing this labor. We started our conversation with me saying, okay, like, when are you going in for this Pitocin? Like, when's your appointment? And she told me 2 o'clock in the afternoon, which I right away was a little red flagged on because she had told me Pitocin in the morning. And, like, a 2 PM afternoon appointment is, like, far away from what was happening in my mind, but I don't know what's happening at the hospital.

I don't know what's going on. So I really just hang out on the phone with her.

Amy coaches Caitlin through more contractions.

They all sounded really real to me.

They do the car booking dance again.

Not quite the same where she forgot to hit the button, but, this time she told me the name of the driver. And again, there was like a conversation with this driver that I could hear through her. I didn't hear this person, but I heard, you know, the same, like, car sounds. And, she got to her appointment. She went right in.

Caitlin narrates as she goes through triage, then up the elevator, and she's booked into labor and delivery. Finally, finally, things seem to be going in the right direction. And Amy's relieved that Caitlin will not be having this stillborn baby by herself. A few hours later, there's news. Baby Eden is here.

We had a lovely stillbirth delivery, like, you know, as nice as it could be. She described to us what the baby looked like when she was holding her. She got that immediate skin to skin and she described what it was like to hold the baby and what she felt like.

It's such a heartbreaking situation and they made the best of it together. All of this, remember, Amy is just on the phone.

And then she started making noises like she was in pain again. She was making, like, oof, like, oh, kind of noises, like like something was being done to her body. And she explained to me that they were tugging at her placenta, that they were tugging at the cord and that it was painful and she was having a hard time with that. And so I was just reminding her to breathe, you know, let her body do what it's supposed to do. You know, I'm here for you, whatever happens and just reminding her she's not alone.

Caitlyn is bleeding a lot. She tells Amy that the doctors are nervous and she's heading to the operating table.

Ultimately, the decision was made that she needs a hysterectomy.

A hysterectomy is when a woman's uterus is removed. It's major surgery.

And so I'm on the phone with a 24 year old girl who's just had a stillborn baby to a sexual assault. And now I have to process with her that she needs a hysterectomy after this.

And I just wanna pause you there for 1 second. Tell me about where Caitlyn's at at this moment.

She's just acting very sad at this moment. To me, it was acting like she was a little bit dissociative. Like she maybe wasn't really present in the moment. She started like whispering a lot of the bad news. So she would, she would like get really quiet and say they want to do a hysterectomy.

And then you'd be like, okay, that really blows. Like, let's figure that out. But like, right now you just need to know that you're safe. Like these are medical professionals. They're trying to do what's best for you.

If you're bleeding this badly, then, like, they're trying to save your life, and I'm here for you. Right?

But things go from bad to worse. The hysterectomy didn't stop the bleeding. Caitlin needs life saving surgery and needs to be moved to a bigger hospital with a trauma unit.

It sounded like she was fading. Like, it sounded like she was having difficulty talking, like, she was having difficulty staying awake. She would talk about how scared she was.

Amy stays with Caitlin on the phone the whole ambulance ride to the bigger hospital.

She would explain what the inside of the ambulance looked like. Honestly, she used a lot of tactics that I have been taught all my life in therapy. Things like focusing on 1 object in the room and describing that object in the room or focusing on 1 feeling you're having instead of all the different feelings you're having. And so we we spend time doing that. I would remind her, you know, it's 20 minutes up the road in an ambulance driving bad out of hell.

We know we're not gonna be that long. We can do this. We counted down the minutes together.

Suddenly, Amy realizes that none of the doctors or nurses working on Caitlyn have Amy's contact information.

She described to me, and I listened to her speaking to somebody else and giving my contact information and it being written down on a pink sticky note, which was put on the front of her file that was being passed over. That if something happened to her during the surgery that, like, her mom didn't know us, her family didn't know us. No 1 would know to call us. Katie and I were fully prepared to be searching obituaries for the next 4 days if we didn't hear from her.

Caitlin tells Amy that she's being wheeled into surgery and hangs up. Amy is alone, off the phone, for the first time in days.

I am just standing in the shower, staring at the wall, scalding hot water, thinking, like, I'm 2 days in, and I have no idea what's coming.

At around 3 AM, not long after an exhausted Amy finally drifts off to sleep, she gets a call from Caitlin, out of surgery, but not out of danger.

So she would say things like, oh, like, this pain is building in my stomach. I'm starting to feel pain in my belly. I'm feeling bloated. And then she would look down or reach down and she would see blood. And I would have to say, is there someone there?

Is there someone you can speak to? Have they left you a call button? And she'd say, I don't wanna press the call button. And I'd say, girl, you gotta press the call button. Like, we don't have a choice right now.

Press your call button. She'd go, okay. I press the call button. And then she would describe a nurse coming and checking on her, lifting the sheets. And then basically, she would say, my nurse looks concerned.

Oh, my nurse is hitting the emergency button on the wall. And so I thought, like, this girl is still bleeding. She's still having a hard time, and this is not over. It is not over.

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I wanna just stop here and acknowledge that this is a lot, like, so much. And in hindsight, Amy sees that now. But at the time she was tending to Caitlyn, even though it was all on the phone, it was overwhelming. She hardly ate, rarely slept. All she did was focus all of her energy on what Caitlyn needed.

And as someone who had chosen a profession that at its core is about caring for others, her instinct wasn't to say, hey, this seems like a lot for 1 person.

At this point, more than anything, I am exhausted. I am completely emotionally checked out. I am no longer taking care of myself.

It's something Amy's ex husband has noticed. It's why he was keeping their kids at his place. Amy's girlfriend at the time is also concerned. But at this point, everyone is just doing what they can to support Amy and Amy needs the support. It's been 3 days now and Caitlin's problems just keep getting worse and worse.

She starts hinting to us that this no longer seems like a necessarily a gynecological issue, but maybe something more is going on here. We have another emergency hospital transfer, and this time it's in a helicopter. So she tells me that she's being helicoptered from McMaster and Hamilton to Toronto General. She says she's covering her mic when it's loud and so that I don't hear too much of what's going on. She makes a a little quip about, oh, your pink sticky note is still on the front of the file, so everyone will know to contact you if they need to.

And she tells me when she can see the CN Tower. And she's using phrases like, I feel like I'm dying. It's so hard to live right now. I just wanna give up. And all I can do is just encourage her to keep breathing and keep focusing on the environment she's in and know that she's getting somewhere where she's gonna be safe.

At this point, Katie, Amy's friend and fellow doula, is back on the calls, sometimes together and sometimes with Caitlin alone.

There was no ability to just, like, continue on with life as this was happening, like, everything was on hold. I was calling in sick from work. I told my boss, like, I have a friend going through an emergency. I need some time off. My partner was, like, basically keeping me fed and, like, semi functional and, like, having to explain to our families at that point too of, like, I was at my partner's house and his mom was like, hey, hey.

Why hasn't Katie left the basement

in, like, a wink? She had told us that the blood clots were getting bigger, that 1 of them was weighed in at £5.7. She even explained how it ripped her as it came out. She would start sending us selfies, but they were all very close. So, we couldn't necessarily see what was happening in the background.

And the whole time, she wore the same sports bra. We had, like, a half a thought, like, why isn't she wearing a hospital gown?

Caitlin tells the 2 doulas that she's starting to go septic. She needs dialysis. It's a smorgasbord of catastrophe. Everything that can go wrong is going wrong and all to this desperate young woman who just lost her baby.

At some point, there was a more major surgery that needed to happen or something that we couldn't be there for. And, she's getting more weak sounding, and she says that she can hear doctors yelling at each other. And, you know, people are disagreeing with treatment, like, it feels tense on her end. And we are hysterical. I mean, we're both crying.

And, we just listened basically, like, at some point, she's just stopped talking and all we could hear was her breathing on the phone. And we kind of assumed maybe she had been put under, but we weren't really sure. And then the call was still going, but it just goes quiet. And we we were even like, we're both on the call, not speaking, texting each other, going, how long until we hang up? Like, once in a while, we're just saying, you know, we love you, Caitlin.

If you can hear us, like, you're gonna be okay. We'll talk to you when you wake up. Everything's gonna be okay. Like, you're gonna see another day.

At some point, the call drops. For a few hours, Katie and Amy do nothing but worry until Caitlin gets back in touch at 5 AM the next day.

And then she texted us that she was being diagnosed with stage 4a pelvic cancer.

It's now been a week since Caitlyn went into labor.

She told us that it was specifically in her vagina, in her pelvis, and in her rectum. We asked what they said the next steps were gonna be, if there was a prognosis with this information. She told us that the next steps included a vaginectomy, radiation, and palliative care. So at this point, we are under the understanding that at some point, she is going to die. She told us that they gave her brochures of the different palliative care options.

We had real conversations about when is it okay to give up.

And just die. And just die. Just 1 week after Amy started coaching Caitlin on giving birth, she's now coaching her for her own death. Amy suggests it's a good time for Caitlin to reach out to her estranged sister in England and tell her that things aren't looking good. They talked about who Caitlin would give her social media passwords to, what they should say after she died.

They figure out where Caitlin should be buried. Amy helps Caitlin write a will to disperse her very few meaningful possessions. And then Caitlin says that she's having a nurse witness and sign it.

She was saying things like, we're all trauma bonded forever. I don't ever wanna get rid of you. We're gonna be in this together forever. We're never gonna forget each other now. Like, also making it very clear that she was sorry that she was putting us through this.

So she would say things like, I'm so sorry. You have to listen. Like, you don't have to stay here with me. If you don't want to, you can go at any time. Like, almost pushing us away so that we would become even more solid in our, like, no, we're here for you.

We're gonna be with you through this. We're not going anywhere.

Amy and Katie promise they'll come and spend Christmas with Caitlin. It's just a month away, and Caitlin is really worried that she'll be all alone, if she's even still alive. The 2 doulas commit to decorating her room at the hospice and singing Caitlyn's favorite carols.

It got to a place of being so connected to her that I was saying, like, like, screw your mom, like, I'm your mom now. You don't need her in your life.

At some point in all of this mess, a little over a week since Caitlin went into labor, it's decided that Caitlin has to be moved again to another hospital to deal with the cancer. Caitlin tells Amy that she's been loaded into yet another ambulance.

It's late at night. It's about, 10 o'clock at night. And I'm on the phone with her by myself. And she starts getting very quiet. And she says to me, I'm not alone.

And I'm, like, what do you mean you're not alone? And she says that she's in the back of the ambulance and that there's a doctor here and he's scaring her. And I'm confused, but my body is I mean, I'm physically reacting to this already. What do you mean you're alone? What do you mean you're uncomfortable?

Can you see his name tag, Caitlin? Can you tell me what his name is? And it goes on, and she's sounding more and more scared. He's here. He's getting closer.

I don't know what to do. She says, oh, my God. And the phone call cuts. And I am picturing her being raped in the back of an ambulance by a doctor.

Amy is freaking out. She can't believe this is happening.

I called Katie. I said, like, do I call 911? I don't know what ambulance she's in.

Before the doulas can even decide what to do, Caitlin calls back. She tells them that the attack is over and the doctor is out of the ambulance. She tells Amy that she's at the new hospital and has reported the incident. But to Amy, she seems oddly calm. And Caitlin really wants to recount every graphic detail.

We were told that they were gonna collect evidence and that they would be in touch with the police. But, like, we were we were a mess. I mean, I'm I'm a sexual assault survivor. Like, after that ambulance call, I I was even more checked out. And when you say

checked out

I mean And I hung up that phone and I went and I vomited.

This whole ordeal goes on for a total of 10 days. Frantic calls that go on for hours. Cady and Amy putting their lives on hold for Caitlyn.

I was a zombie. Yeah. I mean, I I am a smart, well spoken, educated individual. And I I had none of those abilities.

Friends are checking. Family is worried. But neither Amy nor Katie can get off the train. They are trauma bonded.

I had a friend who I was, who's a doula, who I was she made a comment on that Thursday kind of mid afternoon to me. And all she said was, wow, I can't believe that all of this is happening to the same person.

That comment, Amy's friend wondering out loud what we are all wondering, finally makes Amy ask the same thing. Those red flags, the old sports bra instead of a hospital gown, the strange timing of the pitocin shot, all of a sudden, these were pretty hard to ignore. And then Amy remembers something that happened a few days before.

She's again being, you know, taken into the operating room, and we hear a dog bark. And I have spent a lot of time in ICUs, both for myself and with other people. And I have never and could not imagine a situation where someone would have a dog in an ICU.

And then Amy's girlfriend has more questions.

She calls me and she says, Amy, I need to tell you something. And I'm like preparing myself, like, what could this be? And she says, if these doctors are getting arrested, it's not on the news.

Caitlin told Amy that the doctor that assaulted her was being arrested. And Amy starts to think her girlfriend has a point. Surely, if a doctor is arrested for sexually assaulting a dying woman in an ambulance, it would make the news.

So we started dating and very quickly, we started getting our answers.

Katie is put in charge of sleuthing, trying to verify everything Caitlin had told them, all of the pictures she had sent.

I started reverse image searching stuff that she had sent us. The photo of a stillborn baby that she sent to Amy. And it was like something so ridiculous. Like if you type in 32 weeks stillborn baby on Google images, it's like the second picture that pops up. Like, she didn't even try that hard to hide her tracks.

The picture of a tumor that she sent us that had supposedly come out of her reverse search that. And it was like the Wikipedia picture for like, colon cancer or something like that.

By this point, I'm out. I'm like, fuck this whole situation. I don't believe a word of it anymore. I don't know what's going on.

Amy's mind is racing. What is happening? But also, why? Why would anyone lie about all of this? What did Caitlin really want from them?

And how is it possible that she was able to do all of this so well? And in that moment, it occurred to her.

There's no way we're the first.

They weren't.

She texts me, oh, you can just come in, you know, I might be fully naked. And that was the first time it crossed my mind that something was off, like something felt off about that. And I had a moment where I stopped before I went in, and I thought I'm about to be kidnapped.

That's next time on the con, Caitlyn's baby. We made numerous attempts to contact Caitlin Braun, outlining the allegations made through the series and inviting her to respond to what has been said. She made it clear to me that she didn't want to be involved with the podcast. The invitation remains open to Caitlin should she change her mind and wish to respond. This is a CBC and BBC World Service production.

The show is written, researched, and produced by me, Sarah Trelevin. It was also written and produced by Kathleen Goldhar. Extra production support from Andrew Friesen and Alexis Green. Sound design and scoring by Mitchell Stewart. Emily Quinell is our digital coordinating producer.

Our senior producer is Veronica Simmons. The fact checker is Emily Mathieu. Our executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is our senior manager, and Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. For the BBC World Service, Kat Collins is the senior producer, and Jon Mennell is the podcast commissioning editor.

A BBC World Service and CBC Podcast production.