Transcript of Conservatives have 'got to change', as Jenrick vows to be leader

Now you want to be the next leader. Why?

Well, good morning, Kay. It's nice to be back on the program. Look, I think the conservative Party has got to change. We've just suffered our worst electoral defeat, but I think we can win again. We do that by being painfully honest about the mistakes that we've made, defending the things we did get right, and we've just left the economy as the fastest-growing major economy in the world with low levels of unemployment. Our kids amongst the most literate and numerate in the in the Western world.

£22 billion black hole.

Well, the black hole is one of Kierstam and Rachel Reeve's own making. They've made political choices. I think these are selfish choices. They've chosen to spend £10 billion a year paying off their union paymasters with excessive public sector pay for train drivers and others. They're choosing to spend £8 billion on an energy company, a fantasy of Ed Miliband. It doesn't even produce any energy. The political choices that they have made in just 53 days are bad choices. They're doing these on the backs of middle-class people because they are about to break their promises and hike taxes this autumn, and on the backs of our pensions for whom they're removing their winter fuel allowances.

Yeah, but the pensioners, as far as the pensioners are concerned, it's pensioners who are not on benefits, isn't it? They want to use the money elsewhere more effectively.

These are people who might have an income as low as £11,000 a year. I don't think it is the right decision to increase pay for people who are relatively well off in our country, like train drivers, to the tune of £10,000 a year in order to pay off your trade union paymasters who helped you get elected. If you were to say more than that. And In return to remove the winter fuel payments for pensioners, just as we are turning from summer into autumn, just as fuel payments are starting to rise. There are people who are worried in our country how they're going to pay their fuel this year.

If I can get a word in any way. Would you not accept that strike action was costing more than what the train drivers received in their pay increase?

Well, I don't think labor have settled the strike action, have they? They agreed to everything that Aslef wanted, the Train Driver's Union, and two days later, just Two days later, just two days later, the same trade union turned around and said, Actually, you know what? We're going to do more strikes, this time on the East Coast mainline for three months. So labour- Over a different issue. The unions are looking at- Over a different issue.

The unions are looking- You must acknowledge that.

Well, the labor didn't get They have anything in return for handing over this money, and they haven't stopped them going on strike. Whether it's on this issue or another one, the strikes will continue. I think the trade unions are looking at people like Keir Starmer and thinking, These are not serious people. These are people who will give in, they will waste taxpayers's money, and they will do whatever they're asked to do. That is bad. This is a bad situation because at the end of the day, taxpayers are going to pick up the bill for years to come.

Do you think Rishi Sunak was a good Prime Minister?

Yeah, I think Rishi was a very decent man who is a friend of mine who worked extremely hard, and we have much to be proud of of the last 14 years in office, despite what Kierstam and Rachel Reeve are doing where they're trying to rewrite history. Why did he lose the election then? Well, I think we lost the election, principally Because we failed to deliver. We didn't deliver on immigration. As you know, I fought relentlessly for major changes to our immigration system. In fact, I secured the biggest ever reduction in legal migration, which we're just starting to see the benefits of. But ultimately, I chose to resign because I wasn't prepared to be just another minister who made and broke promises on that subject. I also think that we promised a stronger economy, and in fact, growth was too low and taxes were too high. I want to see us drive real growth in our economy, not What Kier Starmer and Rachel Reeves are doing. I want cheap and reliable energy. I want real skills, not low-value degrees. I want to get people off welfare and into work. I want to get building in our cities whilst labor are slashing the housing targets here in London and putting them up on the Green Belt.

And the countryside. I have a very different approach as to how we grow the economy.

This is not a pitch for you to be the next leader. It's not a soapbox. You asked me, Kay, at the beginning. Let me ask you some questions and then you can reply to them. Thoughts on the Prime Minister starting talks on a new cooperation treaty with Germany?

Well, I am all for working with our friends and allies, whether that's in Europe, the United States, anywhere else in the world. What I do not want to see him do is seed control. I don't want us to be undermining NATO as the principal foundation of our security and defense in Europe. I don't want to see us lose the Brexit benefits that we should now be harnessing. We want to be growing our economy by boosting the industries of the future, like technology, financial services, life sciences. That means at times diverging from Europe and I would want to hear the Prime Minister say that he's going to be using those newfound freedoms to get our economy growing, to make us a more innovative and prosperous country.

He says a much better deal on trade is what he's looking for.

Well, let's see what he comes forward with. But I think that the The UK is well placed to tap into the fastest-growing markets and sectors of the future. But you don't do that by simply tying us to Europe and ensuring that all of our regulatory framework is the same as theirs. We need to be more nimble. We need to have smarter regulation. At the moment, the UK economy, thanks to the choices that we made, particularly under Jeremy Hunt as Chancellor, the UK is the fastest-growing major economy in the world.

He says that he wants to strike deals with the EU to reduce border checks on food products, lessen paperwork for touring artists, and boost recognition of work qualifications, making it easier for some professionals to work overseas.

Well, look, we have to see if there's any substance to this. He also says he's going to talk about migration. And yet what is the one of the first things this government did? It scrapped Rwanda, the only credible deterrent to stop people getting in a small boat. Well, that is one of the things he says is on the agenda today in Berlin. But let's talk about the EU. Yesterday, when he did a speech, he didn't even mention immigration, one of the principal topics that the public are worried about. So let's see what he actually achieves through this.

To that end, what about free movement of people under 30?

I don't support a blanket approach to that. I think there is an argument for highly targeted youth mobility schemes of the kind that I signed and the last government did. But there where you're looking at particular countries for particular reasons and where there is no risk of undermining what we've just achieved, which is ending freedom of movement. That was a great step forward because for the first time in my lifetime, ministers now have within their hands the levers to control legal migration. Now, I don't think that they have been used wisely. The argument that I've made passionately- We have vacancies that can't be filled because we don't have people in the UK that want to do those jobs. I disagree with that, Kay. What we need to do is get the millions of people that we have in our country who are economically inactive or on welfare, off welfare and into the dignity of work. We need the skills strategy, and we need to be urging employers to invest in the domestic workforce, not undercutting British workers' wages, merely to bring in people from overseas.

It's not working, though. It didn't work under your government, did it? As a result, there was massive gaps in employment. As a result, what he's suggesting is that he wants a free movement for people under 30, although they haven't actually said that in as many words, but that's how we're interpreting it.

Well, I don't believe in mass I want Parliament to set a legal cap on the number of people coming here each year, and I want that to be in the tens of thousands or lower. If mass migration was rocket fuel for the British economy, we would have just lived through the greatest period of economic growth in our history. That isn't the case. I think mass migration is made us poorer, it's made us a less united country, and it's placed huge pressure on housing and access to public services. I think we've got to change that. I don't pretend it's going to be plain sailing, but these are the difficult questions that politicians institutions like me need to be bringing forward if we're going to regain the public's trust on migration. Kirstammer doesn't talk about it. He's happy just to keep going with the cycle of broken promises on immigration. That has done so much damage to the public's trust in politics and democracy. I want to change that. I want us to actually live up to our promises and control and reduce immigration.

You also want to retire, Nigel Farage. What do you mean?

Well, I think reform is a symptom, not a cause. It exists because we, the conservative Party, didn't keep our promises. I think if we can once again be a party with very clear positions on legal migration, as I say, a cap set by Parliament, on illegal migration, that if you come here on a small boat, you'll be detained and removed within hours or days, not weeks or months. And to do that, I believe we need to- Why did you make that happen when you were in government? Well, with respect, I am the only minister who has ever reduced the number of people coming across on small boats. It fell by 36% under my watch. And when I couldn't secure the changes- Is that with the Albania deal? With the Albanian deal, exactly, which was very successful. And when I concluded that I couldn't do everything that was necessary to stop the boats once and for all, I took the decision to resign from cabinet. And I was the only minister in the last Parliament to do that. People know that I care about this issue and that I will always act on principle on it because it's doing immense harm to our country.

Kierstaer, certainly, didn't mention it in his speech yesterday. He didn't mention it in his speech yesterday at all, and he's not serious about this.

Why are you only the fourth most popular of the would-be leaders in the latest Hugo poll, do you think?

Look, I don't know. These polls come and go. What I'm doing is making my pitch to concerted party members and to the country. I think I've got the best diagnosis of what's just gone wrong. I think that I've got the ideas, the serious answers to the big challenges facing our country right now, and that if we can do that, if we can show the public that we have learned our lessons, that we are uniting again, ending the division of factions in the party. You're pitching again. We can win again.

Okay. I read that you used Ozempic to lose weight, but you didn't like it very much. That's a bit like saying that you smoked cannabis, but you didn't inhale.

Well, I did use it for a period of time. It didn't sit well with me, but it turns out what is the best way to lose weight? Not eat as much. Eat less and do some more exercise, Kay.

How much did you lose?About.

Four stone.

Goodness. How are you going to keep it off?

I'm going running, going swimming, being a bit more careful about what I eat.Okay. Do you feel better?I do.

It's been great. Excellent. It's good to see you.Thank you so much.You too. Very nice to meet you. Thank.