Transcript of Soto's Historic Contract, Expansion to Europe, & Ask Allan Part Two | Agent Provocateur

This is agent provocateur with Alan Walsh and Adam Wyld.

Welcome to another episode of agent provocateur. I'm Alan Walsh, and I am in Toronto with the 1, the only Adam Wyld. How are you, Adam?

Well, you know, Alan, I'm so glad you flew all this way to just to see me.

It was just to see

It couldn't be Max Pacheretti. It couldn't be the 2 goals that he scored last night or anything like that.

That. No. But what a game.

Yeah. No. You came in for a good 1.

3 point night. I have to

ask because, like, he had, I think there's a couple of things with Max that I wanna talk about. But he had he had he was playing great, had the injury, has to be frustrating, comes back, they pair him with Tavares, and they're back off to the races again. Is he feeling is he feeling it right now, feeling good? There was that big hit with Jack Hughes. He's had a week.

Yes. I think that, a lot of people here in Toronto are surprised at his level of physicality.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I don't think they, had seen that much physicality from him in the past, although he played a much more physical game in Vegas than he did win in Montreal, but he was playing in a different role.

Right.

Right? The brilliance of Max Pacheretti is that he sees where there's a need, and he's able to adapt his game. A lot of players cannot do that. Mhmm. They're very stubborn.

They play 1 way, and that's the only way they're gonna play. Max is such an intuitive, smart player that he's able to evaluate a team in a situation and say, you know, if I play like this, this is something they don't have right now, and I can fill a need here. And there's very few players that actually think like that. But when you are let's face it. He's not 26.

He's not 27.

Mhmm.

When you are 35, 36 years of age, and you are you still can play at a high level, you can still produce at a high level, but you've gotta find a way to make yourself needed

Mhmm.

And to fill that role, he did it, and he's able to do that.

And I so so it wasn't the Leafs sitting him down and going, Max, we need you to truck guys, or run him over. It was him going, this is what I'm gonna bring. Absolutely.

I think

So that's great. That's interesting.

I think they were as shocked as anybody when they saw the way he was playing. I mean, putting up 5, 6 hits a game.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's a monster. So okay.

So that's good to know that they're that they didn't even realize what he could do. That's cool. And and obviously, you know, there's been a lot of news this week, Alan, that I wanna kinda talk to before we get to the questions part of this episode because as soon as the 1 So to deal was signed, I was like, I wanna talk to you about that. But there is

I should have gone into baseball.

I know. I know. You're, like, really, no cap. But, I wanna start first with an agent's perspective on when reports are incorrect. So, Sham Shirania, who is a, the the last insider in the NBA, obviously.

He's over at ESPN now. He reported that Jimmy Butler, is seeking a way out of Miami. He said the Phoenix Suns are another team that Jimmy Butler's agent, Bernie Lee, has indicated in league circles, that the 6 time All Star is open to as a destination, while Miami listens to offers from Dallas, Houston, and Golden State. Now I won't get into all the tweets, but, Bernie Lee, went on a bit of a I don't wanna call it a tangent because he was pretty well, he was pretty directed. It was he just basically said that's not true, and you need to do better reporting.

And then Shams went back on ESPN and said, I will verify this report. I could back this report. I believe in this report. As an agent in that position, somebody's talking about a story that you know about, a client that you have, and you know it or think it to be incorrect. What do you do?

So,

there's the way things are and the way, the the way they're perceived and the way they actually are. K. At the at the end of the day, if there is a significant report about a client from an insider, that insider, it's gonna shock everybody, is gonna reach out to me in a text or a phone call and say, hey. I heard this from a source about your client. And before I report it, I'm calling you to give you a heads up and to ask you if it's accurate.

Mhmm. Alright? Now in this business of dealing with people, you know, and and as you know and as many people know, I've been an agent for 30 years now, you cannot lie to people. Right? If an insider or anybody calls you and says, you know, is is this accurate about your client?

I'm not gonna lie. I won't say, no. It isn't. I if if it's something that I cannot give an answer due to confidentiality Mhmm. And many things are covered under that, my stock answer is I cannot say anything about this.

Okay?

And and

I'm not I'm not lying. I'm not misleading. If I say, no, that's not true. And the insider knows it's true or later finds out it's true, then he knows I lied to him. Mhmm.

Alright? I will never disclose injury information about a player. And I, you know, player gets hurt the next day. I get 5 or 6 text messages from different media. You know?

How long is he gonna be out? Is it groin? Is it hamstring? Is it knee? Is it, what what is it?

You know? Is it shoulder? Is it, separated? Is it dislocated? Is he go I don't comment on that.

I don't give that information out to anybody. That is personal information between the player, the team, and me, and it's very closely guarded. Go try to get injury information out of a team and good luck with that.

You won't. Yeah.

You won't. Right? And there's a reason why. But I'm not gonna lie. So I'm not going to say your whoever told you this gave you bad information, it's it's a lie.

I'll just say I can't comment on that or I won't comment on that or I'm not gonna say any further about that.

Okay. Okay. And is it you know, these relationships you you you develop as a as an agent with your players, with ownership, with management, with coaches, and then with insiders, it's gotta be a bit of a tough balance because, you know, they can be somebody that you get along with great. And I think specifically about some of the GMs we've had on the show. Yep.

You can have contentious negotiations with them, like Steve Iserman. You you when Steve was on this show, you guys openly talked about some contentious negotiations that you've had, and then you hugged it out afterwards.

Right.

You know, how do you balance those types of relationships in the media? Let's say there's a new insider, and they're really hungry and they're pestering you. What do you do?

I I'm very good at giving people time. So I have people reach out to me all day.

Mhmm.

And, it's many times it's it's kids in law school. It's lawyers. I I mean, I get the same email at least 3 or 4 times a week. I'm a securities lawyer. I'm a personal injury lawyer.

I hate my job. I love what you do. I'm a big hockey fan. I'm wanna be an agent. Do you have 5 minutes, 10 minutes of your time to give me, some advice on how to get started?

Mhmm.

I I get that a lot. And, you know, we've had this conversation before. We've done episodes on this. There really is no magic formula for getting started. It's not like a law firm where you can go somewhere and the firm will give you business.

No. There's no agency that will do that. Your value is your relationships with your clients.

Yes.

Right? And and I think that when you're looking at that, you know, the the bigger picture, you're not going to mislead. You're not going to send people down the wrong road. I take people in. I've gone for dinners, breakfasts, coffee, meeting complete strangers all the time.

I mean, you picked up my phone call

out of the blue. It took a while.

But you did it. You did it. And the

first time we ever talked, we talked for 90 minutes. We did. We

did. It was great. It was a great conversation.

And I was sitting on a lawn chair on the beach with the 20 feet from the ocean, and I said I was like, alright. I'm taking this call. I'll answer it this time.

Well, so okay. Then then that brings us to, baseball, and you're right. I think maybe you should have gone into baseball, at least dabbled. So Juan So to signs for $765,000,000, which is just an unbelievable sum of money. And none of it really deferred.

Right? So not like the not not like the Ohtani thing where he's not gonna see it for a decade. Juan will see it now.

And 75,000,000 signing bonus. And he was given a suite, at the, luxury suite at the stadium for free. And he was given a private security detail and I believe also personal use of the owner's private jet. And there is a whole host of perks in there that, can never be inserted into a NHL contract as it would be a either a caps or convention, or they would, quantify the value of those, items or services and put that into the contract's AAV.

Right. Right. And and that used to be possible, but then, you know, the lockouts happened and and some of those things occurred, and so you can't do it anymore.

So So when I first started in the business, my partner, when I started in 1995, was a gentleman by the name of David Chaddia who was a legendary sports agent and lawyer out of Montreal. And he had been out of the business for, about 10, 11 years when we met in 95, maybe longer, maybe 15 years. But in the 19 seventies, he was 1 of the original agents in sports. And he represented Fergie Jenkins, and he represented, Dennis Potvin, who went number 1 overall in the NHL draft in 1972. And he actually represented for 4 or 5 years in a row the number 1 overall pick in the NHL draft.

Wow. And 1 year, I think it was 1974, he represented the top 10 picks in the draft from 1 to 10. And there was only a handful of agents back in those days. There were 5 or 6 guys representing NHL players, and a lot of those agents represented players in different sports. So David represented Major League Baseball players.

He had a couple of NFL players. He represented a bunch of CFL players, Montreal Alouettes in particular. Back then, he represented Andre the Giant for a while.

Wow. That's cool.

And and and here he was completely out of sports, and I meet him in 1995, and we start an agency from scratch together. We didn't have a client. We didn't I didn't literally, I knew nobody in the business. We started from ground literally ground 0. But David had a lot of war stories.

And 1 of my favorite ones was Bill Tory, general manager of the New York islanders, and they drafted Dennis Potvin number 1 overall.

Mhmm.

And now they gotta sign him. So David goes in to the island and meets with Bill Tory. And they talk, you know, signing bonus, term, salary, and they get pretty much it all done. And there's 2 things that was routinely done back then. Number 1, the team paid the agent fee directly to the agent.

Oh, okay. Players didn't pay the fee. Okay? So then, you know, the agent would negotiate his fee with the club.

Oh, right.

K. That was banned in 1995 for good reason. Yep. And the next thing David said was at the end after negotiates he goes, Alan, negotiate the signing bonus, the term, the salaries, the bonuses, my fee. The last thing I said was, and Bill, 1 last thing.

And Bill Torrey, bow tie, legendary guy. He's like, what, what, what, what? And he says, well, Dennis always dreamed about a baby blue Mercedes. He wants a baby blue Mercedes to seal the deal. And Bill Torrey's face got beet red, and he got up and he will let he left the office.

And David said, yes. I'm sitting there 15 minutes. Nothing. And Bill Torrey comes back, sits down. He says, anything else?

He's like, nope. That's it. He's like, okay. We have a deal.

Wow. So you just needed to cool off a little bit. It's probably like, I need a baby blue Mercedes. So so with that's a great story. With this deal, this this 1 So to deal, the the name that always comes up in the off season inevitably, and this man holds court and, you know, dominates the GM meetings, and he's on the MLB Network.

He's on Sportsnet here in Canada. He's on ESPN in the States, is Scott Boris. And Who? I've never heard of him. Scott will tell you who he is.

And but he's but there's a reason for that. He's very clearly the guy for those tour those types of big deals in the MLB. He has signed those massive contracts, consecutive years, and he, you know, has a whole history leading up to this. And I wondered from your perspective, when you look at a career like his, what what do you take from that? Do you do you look at him, oh my do do you get wowed by the number?

My question with him is, you know, what's his negotiating style that sets him apart from other agents? Like, how does he get these guys? How does he get this many people to sign on with him so he's got the marquee guy every summer? Because he seems to.

So, the first thing about him is right now, he's 72.

Wow.

Okay. And to have that kind of longevity, you know, I'm 59 and I've been in this business now 30 years. To think of being in the business 40, 45, 50 years, Wow. Like, that's incredible longevity. Many years ago, I was having lunch with Barry Bonds.

And Barry Bonds, was represented by this group of agents. He left them and went to Scott Boris. And then he left Scott Boris and came back to these guys. Okay? And I'm having lunch with these agents who are now representing currently representing Barry.

They had him for a long time. They lost him to Boris, and they got him back. And the conversation went to Scott Boris. And and Barry was like, man, it was it was it was interesting, you know, working with him. He had a million questions about my swing.

And 1 of the things I had to do was promise him in my representation agreement that I would give him an hour or 2 hours a year where I would do nothing but answer questions to him about the mechanics of my swing, and, and my stance. And and I'm sitting there listening to this, and I'm just sitting there. There's 5 or 6 people around the table in a restaurant. And I was like, really? Like, he's Alan, like, he is hungry for and fascinated by those kinds of details.

And what I hear about Scott Borris, I mean, I'm not in the sport, his sport. You're right. He represents a lot of top players and has done some groundbreaking historic contracts, and hats off to him for doing that. He has a huge clientele. He also has, from what I hear, an incredible analytics system.

And baseball is a lot more geared towards numbers and analytics where 1 of the ways of many he's able to, put forward a persuasive argument to justify some of the numbers in the past and in this deal are based on proprietary analytics that he invests 1,000,000 of dollars a year in. He's basically got an analytics department more sophisticated and and and 1 that rivals Major League Baseball teams.

Wow.

And I find that really interesting.

So he's his own he's the 30 31st team, I guess, or something like that in terms of departments.

Right.

That is fascinating. Yeah. And what do you think what kind of an edge would that give? And I again, I know baseball is different from hockey in that the analytics are further ahead, and they're far easier to track. There's a chaos element to hockey that baseball doesn't have so much.

What do you think that gives him in a negotiation if you're head to head with the general manager?

Well, I I think that general managers today are very much mouthpieces of the back office.

Right.

So I know, many times when I'm speaking to a GM about a deal just in hockey, the GM has been given a negotiation memo from his assistant GM and analytics staff. They put together a memo, and I could tell the GM is on the phone with me referencing something that he's reading and that he didn't put that document together because he just doesn't have the time. Right? So it's negotiations now have become much more sophisticated and having the resources. You know, we just talking Octagon, you know, we're we're a very big division inside a very big agency, and we have resources that no 1 else other than maybe, 1 or 2 other big agencies may have.

Mhmm. And it does give you an edge in this kind of, activity negotiating deals. What is, what I've always strived to be, I started as a very small agent and I went from, you know, 2 clients to 4 clients to 6 clients. And as I started building my business and expanding my client base, I also was always thinking about the future and the resources that I could use in the future to make me better and make my business better. Mhmm.

And I think it's very hard today to be a solo agent with a couple of clients. It's just too competitive. It's probably more difficult today than it was it certainly was 30 years ago and 20 years ago and 10 years ago. It's it's almost I hate to use the word impossible, but really, if you've got 3, 4, or 5 players in the league, you're having a very difficult time competing in the level of resources you can provide. I could go through what we do, and and the level of detail in all of the resources available would blow you away.

Mhmm.

And that's what's out there now.

Wow. Okay. Okay. Well, so this is you know, you I always look to or I try to look to the best at whatever it is that we're talking about and going, what are they doing? And so Boris is an interesting 1 in the MLB just because.

Very interesting.

Yeah. That's fascinating. So when a deal like that happens at Octagon, are you guys all passing around the terms going, can you believe this and can you believe that? Like, does that is that big news for you? And and, you know, as an agent, are you interested in what other agents in other sports are doing normally?

I consider myself a student of what I do. Mhmm. And I'm always interested in what's going on in basketball, in baseball, in football. And on on the last episode, we talked about me being in, at, in McLean, Virginia at Octagon's Global Meetings.

Yes.

And I got to every 2 years when we have these meetings, I get to sit with leading agents in all the other sports. So I'm sitting with Steph Curry's agent. Mhmm. I'm sitting with Chris Paul's agent. I'm sitting with, Michael Phelps's agent.

I'm sitting with Simone Biles' agent. I'm sitting with Bobby Whitt Junior's agent, and we're able to talk shop. Yeah. And and it's the the conversations for me are incredibly fascinating. I mean, I I look forward to it.

I you know, you go to the bar at night and you have a couple of beers and you tell some stories and you talk about things that happen behind the scenes and there's so much similarity, and yet there's some very significant differences.

Yes. Yeah. Well, it's like when we had Giannis' agent on.

Right. Right?

You know, that was that was quite the pull, like, that that was and he had a big contract coming. That was a a really interesting discussion, and the the similarities between the 2 of you were evident in in some in some very, like, real ways. I I if you haven't seen that episode, by the way, you should go back and check it out. He he was great.

Yeah. It was Alex Saratsas Yeah. And it was in our 2nd season. But 1 1 of the things that I I glean from all these conversations is there's always been a trend for what is going on in baseball and basketball and football always comes to hockey last, but it comes. So I'm always interested in hearing what's going on behind the scenes in those sports with an eye towards maybe not today or tomorrow, but in 5 years, this is gonna be something that I'm gonna be dealing with.

Yeah. Yeah. Now I I we got some really great questions, especially on Blue Sky that we didn't we were not able to get to last time. And I'm I, they they run the gamut from really deep to, kinda light. So I'm gonna start with kinda light, and this is from Starzy, and she wants to know, do do the agents at Octagon give players and staff gifts for birthdays or Christmas?

Is that still a thing?

It is. Okay. It is. From gift baskets

Mhmm.

With nuts, wine, and cheese. There's, whether it's a, you know, travel case or a jacket or some new gadget. There's always something that goes out every year. What I've always done, and I've been doing it for 30 years, is I send out a holiday card and I handwrite a note to each person in that card. And I've been doing that for 30 years.

And even in the era now where most people just send electronic cards, which I hate.

Okay.

I'm actually gonna be back in LA this weekend and I'm gonna be sitting in my office probably for 2 straight days, 5, 6 hours a day, doing nothing but writing notes to, people in our company holiday card and send it out.

In in in, you know, we got a lot of people who are pretty young in in business world. And even me at 36, like, this business is really only 3, 4 years old. Why is sending a physical card a difference maker? Just generally speaking.

Because you're taking the time to sit down, pick up a pen, and write something that is coming from your heart, your hand into the pen on paper. And it to me, and and there are lots of people that that don't see it this way, and there's no right or wrong. But to write to to type out a note Mhmm. Or to send a generic electronic card and hit send and it goes to a 1000 people, It's it's less personal, and I have always been about the personal touch.

That is true. That is true. Now the next the next, question I have for you is from TA Neiman, and this kind of dovetails perfectly with the video that the Concussion Foundation that you're a part of, posted this week. It's myself, it's you, and it's Chris Nowinski, talking about CTE. And this is from a couple of years ago, we were in our previous studios.

But, this person asks, I'm curious as if Alan has looked into Guardian caps usage in the NHL. Football players use them at the university level, and the helmets can be made for hockey. Some child programs do have them. Have you have you heard anything about the effectiveness? And I know that there are a lot of young parents who are concerned about this because, obviously, whether or not you make the NHL, it's not about concussions.

As you always tell us, it's repeated head, head just head hits. Right?

Right. Head impacts.

Head impacts. It doesn't have to be a concussion. Any idea about the efficacy?

I know that there's lots of different types of of helmets Mhmm. And and guardian caps that have been tested, that have been tried. There is very few clinical studies that are able to track this. So the bottom line is we don't know. To give you an example of of the length of time it takes, there is a study underway now, using blood biomarkers, clinical study.

Mhmm.

Huge. It's a massive it's involving thousands of of, patients, for lack of a better word, to diagnose CTE in the living. And it will take about 10 years of collecting data before they will be able to make conclusions and write the paper Wow. On this. Because you need to follow the progress of of the people and take blood from them at least Regular intervals.

Regular intervals.

Wow.

Yeah. So it's a 10 year process. So it's not a matter of being able to put a cap on somebody and say, okay. Go out and wear it for a year. And how do you measure whether it's successful or not?

Yeah. Yeah. Right? So

Well, you first have to be able to diagnose CTE in the living.

Right. But so so what they can do is they can put, helmets on dummies, and and not not somebody who's not very smart, but an actual somebody who's not alive kinda thing. Right?

Yes.

And, they're able to measure the impact through the helmet in a measurement of of how much actually gets through to the head.

Wow. On cadavers. That's crazy.

Yes. But, that still, we don't know if that translates.

Right. So there's still so much that has gotta be kinda learned here.

Question.

Yeah. I I thought it was too. I was like, man, that is a good 1. Rookie on Blue Sky says, hear me out, Alan. Get me signed to any team at League Min.

Can you make it happen before Christmas?

Send me your number, and, let me make a couple of phone calls, and we'll get it done.

Justin, Morales on Blue Sky says, is there a desire for NHL players to play on big holidays like thanks giving or Christmas, do players prefer to play on those days because they're big days? Like, for instance, we're my mom's from Pittsburgh, so we're big Steeler fans, and the Steelers are playing Christmas day. The NBA does their Christmas day games, or do they prefer to have the days off?

I think the players very much value the Christmas break. Okay. And there's no games. There are games, in and around Canadian Thanksgiving, American Thanksgiving, New Year's Day, winter classic. I think if we're talking about an event like an outdoor stadium game, like the winter classic on New Year's Day, I think that's an exciting event for players.

They certainly look forward to it and wanna be involved. It's it's, you know, Christmas, not so much. I know. I've never heard a player say, boy, I really wish we played a game on December

Just like the World Juniors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No. Okay. Now I have a question. And I'm so I'm gonna insert myself into this, but whatever. I get to be the host here too.

You didn't submit it to

I didn't submit it to myself. But I wanna ask you about the rumors that came out this week about the NHL growing its brand internationally. And this is something we've talked about since season 1 of the show, how they really haven't done a great job of growing it outside of the game, the lack of international competition. And now we've jumped from we're not gonna do any of that to 4 nations to Olympics, which they still haven't fully agreed to yet, but they're going.

Yes.

And now there's talk of NHL Europe or something to that effect. Do you see do you think that the NHL will eventually go the direction of there will be, like there is in soccer, different leagues in Europe that feed in to play for the Stanley Cup 1 day, or is this a they'll play more games over there in an exhibition style?

My feeling is that sooner than later, the next level of expansion after the 2 teams that get added in the next few years is going to be Europe. Okay. And you can put some European NHL teams on the coast in Europe, And it's literally 6 hour flight from London to New York City.

Mhmm.

K? It's a 6 hour flight from New York City to LA. Right. Right? So it is viable.

And I was reading that a couple of planes are in development, that will be going London to New York in 2 hours.

So sort of like the Concords or the

Yes. That will be out and about you know, they figure 6 to 8 years will be fully commercialized. So I think that as we move into the future, we are going to see NHL teams based in Europe playing in the NHL. And it's the next wave. And it's you know, people could be listening to this and say, like, what are you talking about?

Logistically, it can never work. I get I've heard it all. Never work. I get I've heard it all. It's not happening tomorrow.

But if we can all jump forward, 10, 15, 20 years, it is gonna be very interesting how the NHL looks and it's gonna look a little different than the way it looks today.

I it's interesting you say it because we we had we had this conversation on the podcast a few years ago, and I said why couldn't that happen? And I heard a lot, especially from our Nordic listeners. So we have a a pretty good contingent of listeners in Sweden and Finland. And they said, no, no. You don't understand the culture here.

We and and that's fair. Like, I've never been. But, you know, we have our club teams, they're community teams. They're not franchises in the North American sense. Correct.

And if you were to bring that model here, people just wouldn't go. And I don't believe that. I think that if the hockey's good, people will go.

I think you can have a team in Paris, a team in London, and a team in Berlin. Okay. And we're not you know, everybody thinks, you know, Helsinki, Stockholm, you know, more traditional hockey hotbed over in Europe.

Mhmm.

Now you have to think on the business side. The business centers of Europe are Berlin, London, and Paris. And that's where I see

That's the start. That's the start. Okay. That would be very exciting. Okay.

And, with regards to that European situation, how do you handle a road trip? Do you have any any thoughts on that? Like, if you're an agent, you're advocating for your player, how would you want that handled?

You'd probably be able to have all the teams on the East Coast Mhmm. Go over to Europe and stay for 2 weeks. Who was I talking to? LA Kings are on a, I think they're on a 2 week road trip right now on the East Coast.

Yeah.

I was talking to a player the other day. He's like, it's crazy, man. We're in the same hotel in New York for 7 days, on a road trip. They're in the same hotel for 7 days.

That's wild.

It's wild. Right? So you can certainly do that with going over to Europe. And you can have the European teams come over and do a 2 week stint in North America and play games and you'd be able to figure it out. It's gonna be a challenge, but it's definitely doable.

And maybe the East Coast teams go over to Europe 2 or 3 times a year. Mhmm. And maybe the West Coast teams go over to Europe once a year.

That is it it is a from this from sitting right here at this vantage point, December 13th 2024, it's a wild thing to talk about, and yet it does when you when you kinda break it down, it does seem like the logical next thing to do. What about Mexico City?

Love it. I know that, I I was talking to some people a couple months ago who were involved in, wanting to bring an NHL preseason game to Mexico City. Yep. And, I know that there have been some very detailed talks that progressed, way down the road. And I would venture to guess right now that sometime in the next couple of years, we're gonna see an NHL preseason game in Mexico City.

That's that's wild.

Yeah. That'd be great.

And do you think that they could support a team there? I mean, the market's huge.

Market is huge, and I I would you know, and there's a lot of money Yes. In in Mexico City. I don't see why not.

Okay. Okay. Now what do you think about this outdoor game in Florida? Because that you know, they've been pushing pushing for this for years. I think it's gonna be done if it's confirmed, and it hasn't been confirmed as of this recording.

Marlins Stadium, they've got a retractable roof. I don't know what the ice will be like, but, hey. It's an outdoor game, and you gotta do what you gotta do.

Yeah. I went to the outdoor game in Dodgers Stadium where it was LA Kings versus Anaheim. Mhmm. And, I I went with my son and daughter, and my son wore

shorts. That's so cool. That's cool. So you so that it it can work.

Oh, yeah.

We got the technology. It's fine. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now this question we get

The the issue was not having direct sunlight on the ice.

Oh, and with a retractable roof, that's not a problem.

No. And, with Dodgers Stadium, they had to time time the game to not have the sun directly overhead. And and that game, I'll like, some some games stand out and just thinking about it now, that that game was special because KISS played Oh. Before KISS played before the game and also played, after the first period.

That's cool. And they put on a great show.

Yeah. Yeah. They were on these retractable

Like disks that come from the ceiling and Going

up and down. It's awesome. Right by and there was a great picture of Gene Simmons with Gary Bettman in a headlock using his you know, long tongue and licking the top of his head. That was Go find that picture and stick it up right

now. Okay. Well, yeah, we'll we'll insert it. Cody Brown. And we get this question every time, so I don't always ask it.

But I'm gonna ask it this time because it's always good to refresh it. Has Alan ever got an offer to work in the NHL head office with Gary Bettman? I bet not, LOL. But if he did, hypothetically, would he be interested?

I have not and I would not.

Okay. Yeah. And you've you've we've had similar questions about you being a GM. You really

are About me not being a GM.

Sorry. About you not being a GM. Yeah. Because some agents do make that crossover. But for you, the passion for you is the players.

Many GMs have, in their background them being an agent. Even people you you don't initially think of as agents. I mean, Ray Sherrow started in the agent business. George McPhee started as an agent. Actually represented Garth Snow, when he first started out.

Dean Lombardi started as an agent.

Mhmm. Brian Burke?

Brian Brian Burke was very well known agent who left and started working for club. I think his first job was with the Vancouver Canucks as VP and director of player development and then he went to Hartford as GM and was in Hartford for several years. So, yes, it is. There's many, you know, agents who've moved on to the GMC. I think you have to have, a passion for wanting to run a team.

Mhmm. And I just don't identify with that.

Right.

I have always been a player's guy. That's what's in me. That's who I am, and I love what I do. Mhmm. So I've never in I in in 30 years, I have never once ever thought I would like to be a GM.

Right. It's never come across my mind and anybody who's ever brought it up around me. And there have been a couple of times where it's been suggested. I've just said, you know, my dad always said never say never to anything. And in this situation, I'm very comfortable saying never.

Okay. So Karen says, good morning, Adam and Alan. I'm curious. How does 1 start a pro sports agency? What are the necessary requirements?

A lot of people are are when they ask these questions, a lot of people that want to be agents, and they wanna be like you. And I don't know if they if you realize how many people listen to the show just to get career advice, but there are a lot, and it's a it's a 20 fourseven, 365 jobs. You are you are taking phone calls every day, including, holidays, birthdays, whatever it is. How did you start your agency? I know you had an older you know, you mentioned it a little bit earlier, but, like, what are the technical requirements?

You have to register the business. What do you do?

So you probably wanna have a company. So you're going to incorporate Mhmm. And figure out whether you're incorporating in Canada or incorporating in the United States. Are you gonna be a s corp? Are you gonna be an LLC?

Mhmm. There's certain differences, subtle differences in the corporate structure. But really, I mean, at the end of the day, I went around for 2 years with a business card that said I was an agent. I had a company. I had a partner.

I had an office. I just didn't have a client. Yeah. And and you work every day to meet players, mostly younger players and their families, and build just like you're building a house, you build the foundation up from nothing. So you dig the hole, you pour the concrete, you lay the foundation, and every everything you do is in furtherance of the future.

Really starting from scratch, it takes 10 years if you're successful. And many people and I'm just talking honestly to you and to anybody else who's listening here right now. I'm no smarter than anybody else. And I am the first person to admit and to know I'm no smarter than anybody else. When I started, there were lots of other people who came on the scene like me, and they were in it for 2, 3, or 4 years, and then they disappeared.

Mhmm.

K? I got in it, and I was determined to be successful no matter what it took. And there were lots of times where I was I was dead broke, totally out of money, didn't know how I was gonna pay the rent or keep the phones and the lights turned on. And it's at that point that many people give up and go do something else. I had a law degree.

Mhmm.

I could have gone to make a lot more money than I was making because I was making 0. Mhmm. And, you know, if at that time I had a wife and kids and I didn't at that time, it would have been really difficult, if not impossible, to feed everybody Mhmm. And to be able to do as it was, I had trouble feeding myself.

Wow.

But I and I'm just people think, you know, now, you know, like, oh, you know, you've negotiated 1 point 7,000,000,000 worth of NHL contracts and this all came easy to you or you got lucky. No. I worked my ass off 24 hours a day And it really the business didn't turn to where you could say you have a profitable business for 10 years. Wow. And many, many people in that position are going to, at some point in time, throw in the towel and say, I just can't sustain this anymore.

I can't live like this anymore. I was willing to live like that as long as it took to turn that business into a successful business. So then the next question I wanna follow you with is you've seen various eras of players, and this is

a question from Twitter. And, I can't find the person's name right now, so I apologize. But they wanted to know, how does a person from the nineties compare to a person from the 2000, the 2010s, and now? What are the changes you've noticed in either player personalities, expectations, things that they look for in a negotiation, things they look for in agent? Are there have things remained relatively the same or are they different?

I think it's I think it's very different now. Players are much more sophisticated, much more knowledgeable, informed.

Mhmm.

They have a lot more resources at their own disposal.

Mhmm.

Many players are very comfortable discussing analytics, discussing, many many players look. They make a lot more money today than they did back in the nineties.

Mhmm.

And the way I've always explained the situation, each player is the CEO of their own company. Right? John Smith, it's John Smith Enterprises, and you're the CEO, and you have to act like the CEO. And you need a CFO. Right?

You need a lawyer. You need people around you. You have to have a structure around you of business management, bill paying, money management, investment. Almost, you know, the guys who are really top top players in the league have, you know, companies have boards of directors.

Yes. Of course. That advise on direction. Yeah.

Yeah. And and there's there's people out there who can play that role as well with some of the top players, in in being advisors to, their life away from the game. And as, you know, now you see players top players making 12,000,000, 13, 14,000,000, you know, as the cap, pushes forward, we're gonna see more 12,000,000, $13,000,000 players in the league. And I think we're gonna start seeing some 16, $17,000,000, $18,000,000 players in the league.

Mhmm.

And, you know, that's getting to where the NBA was 20 years ago.

But Exactly. That's like a bench player in the NBA.

Right? Again, you know, like what I said, what goes on in those sports will eventually come to hockey. It just takes a longer period of time to get there. Mhmm.

And

that's 1 of the things that's that's going we're gonna see. Players when I first started representing players in the in the mid nineties were I mean, the average salary was about $400,000 a year.

Mhmm.

And and there were many players that were, first of all, they were not financially secure when hockey was over.

Right.

Right? Yes. And and and up until that time, there were a group of players that used to work in the summer to supplement their income. As crazy as that sounds now, that's the way it was. So that doesn't that doesn't go on anymore.

And I'll never forget 1 of the first times I ever met Bob Goodnow when he was the executive director of the NHLPA. He was pounding the table, and he said, my dream my dream as he pounded the table is that every NHL player when they retire, when they stop playing has financial security. That they it's not that I don't want them to work in retirement. I want them to not have to work. And I thought that was a pretty interesting way of looking at things back then.

Yeah. And and prescient because that's what every league wants now. Right. Last question here. This is from Desmond.

So I'm very curious. Why did Alan join SDPN? No offense to you guys, but he's an agent, and he's probably pretty busy. Why did he wanna start this podcast? I really like it, so I'm not complaining, but I'm curious.

I have no fucking idea. No. You know what? That's a great question and that, I'd I'd like to say this. I had no intention of being involved in a podcast.

And, you know, the first couple of times you reached out to me, I kinda made that very clear to you that this was something that I was not gonna do. And your salesmanship and sincerity convinced me to try this.

Mhmm.

Right? I had no idea if I was going to enjoy it or not. And if I didn't enjoy it, it was gonna be a very short lived podcast. But I found that the relationship with you and Jesse and Steve and everyone else associated in this tremendous company, just such great people that it's opened up a a a different avenue in my life that is very meaningful to me. And I really enjoy doing this.

I like talking about hockey. I like talking about the business, and I like talking about it particularly with you.

Mhmm.

And I find it very enjoyable. But more important than all of that is the friendship. Mhmm. And I just find that, you know, you and and Jesse and Steve have become great friends In life sometimes, go try new things. Don't do just what's safe.

I had no real experience behind a microphone or in front of a camera. And I still, many times, am my own worst critic.

Yes. You are. Yeah. And

cringe at some of the hums and haws and, you knows and, you know, and all that. But overall, this has been a great experience and it's something that I've never regretted, and it's something that I very much enjoy.

I'm thrilled by that. I'll tell you the the reason I called or I wanted to reach out to Alan for a while, was, I saw you on Timminsit, and you were it was during the pandemic, and you were hot about something. And it I I remember being completely captivated, and I'm like, if I feel this way, an audience will feel this way. And when I talked to Alan I'm gonna talk about you as if you're not here. When I talked to Alan the first time, you know, we talked on the beach or you were on the beach.

I was in my cold, wet home in here in Toronto. The As it should be. Yeah. Of course. You know, Alan started telling stories.

And and then it was so funny because the call wraps up, and I'm like, we gotta do it. You know, we gotta do this. It's a great show, great idea. Alan goes, I don't know. Like, I think people get bored of me pretty quickly.

I'd probably run out of stories. And here we are on on season 4, halfway through it already. And, you know, I don't think we've even scratched the surface, honestly. And I know there's a bunch of stories that you can't even tell that are gonna go in a book 1 day, that are, you know, when you're done in the business, here's the here's the real story.

Maybe in a book.

Maybe in

a book. Maybe in a book. Several stories that won't even be able to go in the book.

There you go. Yeah. So I just, you know, I think, I think first off, I love having you here. I really wish that we either lived in L. Or you were up here more.

So you probably have to put more clients on the Leafs or something like that. But, you know, I think, we we just love your insights. And I'll tell you something, the the the thing that's been the most surprising, because I didn't know what type of guy you are, when when you finally agreed to do this show, Alan said to me, he said he said, listen. If I'm in, I'm in. Yeah.

If if I'm if you're my guy, you're my guy. Sir, you're my guy? And I was like, yeah. I'm your guy. I'm your fucking fuck.

Fuck. Yeah. I am. And, and and and that you have stayed true to that. Loyalty to you first off, you're very empathetic.

You're very loyal. You're very outspoken for your guys, for your people. And that's your family, that's your friends, that's your players. Yeah. The loyalty factor in entertainment is almost nil.

And so to see the loyalty that you have given us, it has been amazing. And so that part of it for me is it it it kinda almost makes me a little bit emotional, because that is really really special. This can be a very transient industry, and you've stuck by us through thick and thin. And I just wanna tell you how much I appreciate it, how much I love doing this show. It's the best.

So Thank you. Yeah. You're the best, man.

Feeling's mutual.

And I'm sorry you gotta leave on a on a plane tonight, but, do you know are we allowed to talk about where you're headed next?

Yeah. I'm going home.

Going home? For how long? How many hours are you gonna be home?

I have no idea.

6, 12, something like that? I don't know. So listen, Alan, thank you for making time. And and, and we're gonna do another episode before the holidays, so I'm not gonna say a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah just yet. Okay.

But, we are doing an episode next week. Can we tease it or should we hold off on saying anything?

Let's hold off. Okay.

We're not gonna say anything. Really exciting, but thank you everybody for your questions. Alan, thank you for being here in person. It's great to see you.

You got it. Thanks everybody for your questions. Great being here in Toronto with you.

Mhmm.

And, till next time.

This has been Agent Provocateur with Alan Walsh and Adam Wyld. Follow Alan Walsh on Twitter at Walsh a. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast by searching Agent Provocateur and hitting the subscribe button. Youtube.com/sdpn.