Transcript of New evidence potentially connects Luigi Mangione to CEO shooting, police say

Tonight, new details emerging about the suspect accused of murdering the UnitedHealthcare CEO. Here's what we know right now. At this hour, 26 year old Luigi Mangione remains behind bars in Pennsylvania. But investigators announcing today they've made significant progress connecting him to the attack. So let's go through the evidence that police have publicly said they have.

We have now learned that Mangione had a notebook on him where he allegedly wrote about targeting a CEO. That notebook is separate from the 3 page manifesto where he claimed he was working alone. Then there's Mangione's fingerprints. Police say that fingerprints taken in Pennsylvania match fingerprints that were found at the crime scene in New York. Then there's the gun that was found on him in Pennsylvania.

That according to police matches 3 shell casings that were also discovered at the scene. Then there's the fake ID. This was reportedly used at a hostel in New York before the shooting, and it was found on him when he was arrested by police in Pennsylvania. And police say clothing that they obtained from Mangione is also consistent with what the shooter was wearing. Social media posts from a Reddit account appearing to belong to Mangione suggest he was suffering from serious health issues.

The 26 year old writing in part, quote, it is absolutely brutal to have such a life halting issue, especially since the issue itself wears down the critical slash logical thinking mind you'd usually use to tackle it. The people around you probably won't understand your symptoms. They certainly don't for me. We have so much to get to tonight, including those threats to other executives in the health care industry, but we begin in Pennsylvania with NBC's Stephanie Gosk.

Tonight, Luigi Mangione remains locked up in a Pennsylvania state prison And Phoebe had busted. Fighting extradition to New York City on murder charges. The NYPD says its crime lab has made significant forensic breakthroughs in its investigation, potentially linking Mangione to the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. The weapon the 26 year old had on him when he was arrested in a Pennsylvania McDonald's matches evidence from the Manhattan crime scene.

We were able to match that gun to the 3 shell casings that we found in Midtown.

Fingerprints match too, the NYPD commissioner says.

We're also able, in our crime lab, to match the person of interest fingerprints with fingerprints that we found on both the water bottle and the kind bar.

A senior law enforcement official says the shooter left those items behind near the scene along with shell casings that had the words deny, delay, depose, an apparent reference to the language health insurance companies use when rejecting claims.

This is powerful circumstantial evidence, and it's gonna start coming in like an avalanche now that they've found Mangione.

In addition to the gun and fake IDs, Mangione was also carrying a notebook according to 2 sources familiar with the investigation With this written inside, what do you do? You whack the CEO at the annual parasitic bean counter convention. It's targeted, precise, and it doesn't risk innocence. Echoing the language, frankly, these parasites had it coming, which was discovered in handwritten pages also found on Mangione, according to 3 senior law enforcement officials. The spotlight on health insurance companies has triggered a backlash online with many voicing their anger at the industry.

In New York City, fake wanted posters have appeared targeting CEOs of insurance companies. An NYPD intelligence and counterterrorism official today said Thompson's murder resembles a domestic terror attack and threatens to set off a, quote, contagion.

This guy is not a hero. He's not a hero. If you have, if you have any issues with somebody, we don't go out there and commit violence.

And Stephanie Gosk joins us now from Huntington, Pennsylvania outside of the prison where Mangione is being held right now. Stephanie, talk to us a little more about that Reddit account that's associated with Mangione and his apparent health issues.

Yeah. You know, Allison, it has since been taken down and archived, but we have verified it. And it goes back years, And it chronicles a number of health issues that Mangione had through the years. In 2018, he describes brain fog that he thought was stemming, from from Lyme's disease. He then goes on to talk about chronic back pain that he had.

It also talks about the surgery that he had from that back pain and said once he had the surgery, he had, he was able to get off of the medications he had been taking for it. You know, I think what a lot of people were looking for was to see if there was any connection to, health insurance companies there or perhaps criticism of the kind of coverage he might have gotten. It doesn't seem to be there, but very clearly, he has had a bunch of health issues, Allison.

Stephanie Gosk in Pennsylvania again. Thank you. We appreciate it. For more on the case prosecutors are building against Luigi Mangione and how his team might try to defend him, I wanna bring back NBC News legal analyst, Danny Sabalos, who you heard from in Stephanie's report just then. Danny, thanks so much for being with us again.

I kinda wanna set this up as if you were the defense attorney representing Luigi Mangione. You're not you're not associated with the case. You know what we know, but you are a defense attorney yourself. And I'm curious when you look at what we know, Mangione's legal team seems to be facing a mounting pile of evidence from the weapon they say was found on Mangione that ties back to the crime scene here in New York, to the fingerprints they say that now match items, a water bottle and a food wrapper that was found near the scene in New York, as well as the fake ID that he actually gave to police in Pennsylvania. And it was according to police, the same ID used here in New York.

If he were a part of his defense team representing him for the charges he's gonna face in New York and that he's accused of here, how would you begin to deal with that massive pile of evidence?

Yeah. 1 thing we knew is that the evidence was going to multiply as soon as they found a suspect. Because up until they found Mangione, they had only 1 side of several pieces of evidence, fingerprints. If you're looking for a suspect who has never been arrested before, then he's not going to be in APHIS, the national database. Some of these other things, the shell casings, you don't have a firearm to match it up with.

Oh, this is now very helpful. We have a suspect who had a firearm on him. So we always knew that the evidence would multiply as soon as they found a suspect. As the evidence builds, the defense will likely move away from a some other guy did it defense and possibly into a diminished capacity, insanity, some kind of defense like that, maybe a kind of temporary insanity to the extent it's even available to them in New York. So as the evidence builds against them, strategically, the defense team is gonna have to really think about what avenues, they're gonna take.

And by the way, the defense team isn't really assembled yet. That Pennsylvania lawyer will not be his lawyer in New York. I can virtually guarantee it. You pick a lawyer in the region who knows the procedure and knows the courthouse for a case as big as this. He knows Altoona.

They'll find someone for New York.

And in terms of that notebook that we are learning more about today, this was allegedly found on Mangione, and it outlined a shooting very similar to the 1 that he's accused of carrying out here in New York. And 2 sources familiar with the investigation are telling NBC News that the notebook included this, quote, what do you do? It says, you whack the CEO at the annual parasitic bean counter convention. It's targeted, precise, and doesn't risk innocence. Is that something that the defense could argue, hey, that's circumstantial.

We don't know if he wrote it. I mean, how do you approach dealing with that if you were trying to defend someone here?

Oh, I can guarantee the prosecution is gonna take that notebook, and they're gonna introduce all kinds of pieces of evidence that will allow a jury to infer that he wrote it even if he would take the stand, which you probably wouldn't, and say, I never wrote that notebook. I don't know what you're talking about. They would introduce officers who's would say they got it from his person. It was in his possession. They might introduce handwriting experts.

I mean, you don't need the defendant to authenticate all the evidence against him. In fact, most of the time, the defendant is, opposing all of this evidence. So the notebook will come in. They will use it. It's excellent evidence, not only of motive, but it's circumstantial evidence that he is the shooter if he's telling you his plan in writing.

And by the way, how rare is it that criminals actually give you this much evidence? They give you evidence of their intent to commit a crime. Most criminals are looking to avoid creating evidence of a crime. This is someone who would appears is creating evidence in a way that he probably perceives as some form of civil disobedience when it's murder, and he's just creating this evidence to make a statement. In fact, his behavior has been inconsistent.

He's fleeing on 1 hand, but also creating all this evidence to say, if you're reading this essentially, I've been caught, and this is why I did it. So all of that stuff is gonna be helpful to prosecutors as circumstantial evidence, and then they have direct evidence really in the form of videos and maybe even witnesses who saw them throughout this entire saga.

You mentioned some of the inconsistent behavior. There was also that outburst outside of the courthouse yesterday. And according to our team who was inside of the courtroom, he had a very different demeanor once inside. When you look at that outburst and the behavior inside, is that something that his defense team could point to to say, see, something is going on here and maybe go to, as you suggested earlier, some sort of insanity defense?

Sure. But, I mean, insanity as a defense has fallen out of favor since the seventies. And in fact, it you have it's a very risky proposition because in order to plead the insanity defense, you have to admit to the conduct and say, yes. I did it, but here's some more information. I have a medical issue.

And then you need medical experts. And believe me, the prosecution has plenty of their own medical experts. So it's a gambit. It's rarely used now. And in fact, it is a huge risk because you're essentially admitting to everything and hoping that the jury finds that there was something wrong with you in terms of mental illness so that this can be excused.

And I gotta tell you, ever since a number of high profile shootings in the seventies, the insanity defense is not very popular.

You mentioned something about the question of whether or not he would take the stand and how that would be unlikely. I imagine a defense team would say, hey. We we don't think you should do this. But if you look at someone who on paper is seemingly writing and wanting to talk about what he did and why, can he say I'm taking the stand anyway?

A defendant has an absolute constitutional right to take the stand no matter how many times his defense attorney tells him not to do it. But I'm gonna I'm gonna make a prediction here. As much as he seems to want to speak out, a lot of times, the same defendant who says, I'm gonna get up there and tell my story and exonerate myself. When you get in the courtroom, you're in the hushed atmosphere. It's intimidating.

You know, you have a judge in the robes up there. A lot of times these same defendants decide, you know what? Maybe I will remain silent. And trial is probably years away, literally years away from this date, as we sit here. And that's a lot of time to sit and think about your case.

And whatever outburst you're seeing now, he might be a little more demure when trial comes and may decide not to testify. As much as he may seem like someone who wants to get up and tell a story, I'm not entirely sure that's indicative of whether he will actually take the stand.

Alright. Danny Savalos, thank you so much for your time and insights as always. We appreciate it. Also developing in this investigation, potential threats to other CEOs in the health care industry. Wanted posters displayed in New York City today appear to show photos of Brian Thompson and other major health care executives accompanied with threatening language.

For more on this, I wanna bring in retired NYPD Lieutenant Darren Porcher. Lieutenant Porcher, thank you so much for joining us tonight. Walk me through what's going on here. What has the NYPD said about these posters? And from your perspective, what could it mean for the investigation into Mangione?

The NYPD is introducing the aspect of this is quite damning behavior as it relates to posting pictures of CEOs and stating that they're wanted because it now drives towards a narrative on the lines of it's okay to use violence against other individuals in society. However, on social media, the killer in this place in this case has developed somewhat of a robust following because what American has not had health care denied from the health health care insurance company. So you have a large contingent of people that are in favor or actually applauding the killer in this particular case, but the NYPD is trying to get in front of it as best as they can. But as a result, you're gonna see a lot of these CEOs and executives in these health care insurance companies that are that that will be affording themselves security in the interim.

I mean, you mentioned the positive response to the alleged killer on social media. When you look at that as someone with, such a wealth of law enforcement knowledge and background, does it worry you that we could see some sort of copycat behavior moving forward?

It does worry me that we're gonna have more and more people that are gonna get behind this actual killer and embark upon a copycat act. And I give you an example. When I look at the McDonald's where, the killer was captured or the suspect was captured, they have been taking a mountain of negative heat based on the tip that was provided by the McDonald's worker. And so I worry about that facility as well. When I say the facility, meaning the McDonald's restaurant because there's mountains of these negative, comments that are directed towards that employee.

This was a good person. This was a person that did the right thing and provided a tip to law enforcement because there was a there was a suspected killer in society. But as it go as I go back to this other side where you have these people that are in support of the suspect, it really, well, begs the question of what is right in society. What is right in society is we need to have violent criminals behind bars and not on the streets.

How do law enforcement agencies deal with threats like this? Because, obviously, making a threat, segging something, typically doesn't violate the law. So how would the NYPD or other law enforcement agencies approach something like this?

Well, it's quite the contrary. Threats do violate the law. Mhmm. And so if you do make a threat such as, look, I'm going to kill you or something to that effect, then law enforcement can take the necessary steps to bring that person into custody. But at the same token, there's law enforcement is being flooded with so many of these, these allegations.

I wanna say allegations, but these people driving towards, driving against these health care, establishments, they're going to make recommendations in how to fortify executives in the health care industry. Case in point, UnitedHealthcare has just recently erected a fence around its facility in Minnesota. So that's a harbinger for the directional path that these health care insurance companies are taking.

Alright. Thank you so much. We appreciate your time and insights. Thank you.

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