Transcript of Episode 580: Charles Whitman: The Texas Tower Sniper

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Hey, weirdos. I'm Elaina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.

Hello, earthlings.

Hello.

Tall Grays. Short Grays as well.

What do they call this? Sorry, my brain's just going into... It's connected. Okay. Because you're talking about aliens. In the Berkshears, there's a bridge where a UFO incident happened. It's on the new Unsolved mysteries, all that fun stuff. And they've put up a plaque and everything. I think they call it an off-world incident on the plaque. And I think it is just the most delicious way to explain an alien coming down, like an off-world incident. Yeah. I like otherworldly better. See, I like it's just off this... It's just such a strange way of saying it, but a poetic one in a weird way. Yeah. Like, that's like you just being like, Oh, excuse me. I'm just going to go off-world for a minute. Off-world? I'm going into space. See you later. I'm going off-world. Because does space not count as the world? No, I think just Earth is the world. Is that how it is?

I don't think of it like Oh, that's how I always see it. I think of the world as the whole fucking shebang.

Oh, really? Yeah. I never thought of it. I always think the world is Earth. Because it's our world and other people have their own worlds or other creatures.

And have their own worlds.

But it's all... Species have their own world. It's all a world. No, it's all a universe. No. I look at it as it's all a universe, but this is our world.

See, for me, I feel like world and universe are synonymous.

You're blowing my mind a a little bit right now.

You're blowing my mind a little bit.

I don't see those as synonymous at all.

Well, that's our brains. So thanks for tuning in. That's wild.

Because I always think, I know we're harping on this, but whatever.

No, it's an interesting discussion.

Because I always say, you're the greatest in all the world. To me, it's like the whole planet, like all Earth. But if I say you're the greatest in the universe, that's a step up.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess I see that.

But I can see why you would think that as well.

For me, if I tell you you're the greatest in the world, I also mean you're the greatest in the universe.

Well, that's good to know. Yeah. Because to me, I was thinking you were downgrading.

Really? I mean, usually, I usually don't say world. I usually just say universe. Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting.

I never think of these things. Maybe, though, it's because your kids say... If we're talking about imaginary things, they say, in our world. Do we have that in our world? Yeah. So maybe that's why you think of it the way you think of it.

Yeah. Because they're always saying, is that in our world? Yeah. They always think of that like our planet, where we are. Yeah. Our reality is what I think of it as. Our world is our reality. Outside of that, I don't know.

It's fucking bleak either way.

Or maybe it's great outside of this.

I mean, it's got to be great somewhere.

It does. It has to be.

But I feel like you get the good with the bad, the happy, and the sad no matter where you go, probably.

I'm assuming.

I don't really want things to be super fucking awesome all the time because then you would lose that feeling.

You wouldn't be as grateful for the great times. You don't want it to be so fluctuating as it feels like it is now with everybody. But it's like, you want a little bit of dips just so you can appreciate the highs. This got so theological. I know what it started with me being like, Isn't it funny that it says off-world?

Yeah, wow. Look at us.

Look at us go.

Wow. That just got insanely deep.

Yeah. And you know, another deep thing before we get into the story is Apple did some weird update in like November. Months ago.

But we just start finding out about it.

We're not up on anything. We never know what's happening.

We're too busy having theological discussions. Exactly.

Too busy talking about off-world incidents. Yeah, you know. But we're always behind on shit. You guys know this about us. We're six years into this. We know each other now. You know us. We're always behind shit. We don't know what's going on in this industry at all. No. It's fine. We like it that way. We shut the door at the end of this recording and we say, bye. But it's been brought to our attention.

Which is probably a good thing that someone told us.

It is good. Oh, no, it's great. I'm glad somebody did. But that apparently Apple has done this update in November, where you're not getting our new episodes automatically. How horrible for you. You have to hit follow on our thing on Apple podcast now. Like, There's three little dots at the top. And if you hit it and just hit follow, that way you'll get automatically updated with our new episodes because you could be... Who knows? You might not even be hearing this.

You might not even be here for this awesome discussion that we just had.

You might hear about this six months from now. Can you imagine If you haven't and you're just one of those lovely people, which if you're listening right now, you are, that just either is already following us, figuring it out, or you've searched and found this episode, you actively went and found this episode to get and listen to. Then you're incredible. One, you're incredible. Thank you. But two, you can just follow and it'll do it for you. Yeah. And that'll be great.

And it will help out the show, too. And we appreciate it.

Yeah, it'll help out the show. So if you do that, that would be sick. And also you'll get all the episodes, you know.

We'll all be in a better place because of it.

What a weird thing to do.

Yeah, it was strange.

It's very strange. It was. That's the only real podcasty thing we have to talk to you about. Before we get into the whole episode, a quick little... This is a trigger warning just because the episode is something that is pretty relevant for recent years. This is about a mass shooting. I'm going to be describing what happened during this shooting. It can be triggering for a lot of people. Some of you may have even been touched personally by one in recent years. So we wanted to make sure that you knew right up up front that we will be discussing it, and it could be a little distressing. So if it is and you want to skip this episode, we get it.

We totally understand. It's okay.

Maybe just put it on mute and let it run all the way through. No, I'm just kidding. You don't have to do that, but that would be sick. But we totally get it. If you want to go to the next episode, we love you for it either way. And if you're sticking around, here we go. Today, we're going to be talking about a pretty infamous case that I know a lot of people have probably heard about. I didn't know all the detail details of it, but we're going to be talking about Charles Whitman, also known as the Texas Tower sniper.

Sounds familiar.

Yeah. It's a gnarly one. It's you, so that checks. It's awful. It's tragic. It's also confusing why it happened. But I think it had a lot to do with... I think there was a lot of undiagnosed mental illness here that It was in the '60s. So it's not like... Oh, okay.

I think we talked about this on crime countdown at one point.

Yeah, I'm sure we mentioned it on crime countdown. But this was in 1966, mass shootings were virtually unheard of in the United States.

Which is crazy to think about now.

In 2024, we're like, What do you mean? It wasn't just a known thing every day that you got a new one.

Imagine being in that place.

Yeah. So Whitman's spree that happened in 1966, it shocked the I mean, shocked. And what was worse at the time is that by most accounts, he was, by an outsider's point of view, the picture of an all-American man, which made his actions all the more confusing to a very 1960s society. Because this very picture of the happy husband with a happy wife. The American dream. Outwardly, he looked like a very, again, the picture of a '60s happy all-American man.

Looks can be deceiving.

He was also well-liked. He had a successful, question mark on paper military career. Okay. On paper. You look deeper to it, and there was a lot of shit code known. All right. He had a beautiful wife, and once out of the military, he had at least started pursuing a college degree in preparation for an architectural engineering-Oh, wow. Career. Oh, wow. So it's like he was everything you could hope for. But behind this façade of an American middle class success story, there was a very deeply troubled man whose personal history and what we find out to be acute medical problems would actually go a little bit of the ways to explaining what happened here. Okay. But nobody else really knew it was happening. So who was Charles Whitman?

Tell. Who?

Do tell. Do tell. Charles Whitman III was born June 24th, 1941. So today, and I didn't realize that.

I was waiting. I was like, Girl.

Oh my God.

Do you know that that is the current day?

Why does this happen? It happens a lot.

I did not plan this. No, it happens a lot. It's weird.

Like, I pinky I miss all of you that I did not plan this. That's weird. In fact, I was supposed to do this one last week, and I didn't. That's really weird. Today. He was born today in 1941 in Lakeworth, Florida, and he was the first of three boys born to C. A. And Margaret Wilson. From the outside, this family appeared to be the perfect American family. Just everything you could want to be. C. A, the dad was a financially successful business owner. He was supported by this lovely wife of his who kept the books for the business, also managing to keep the household afloat, raising the three children, her three lovely boys. What What else could you ask for? Behind closed doors, however. I was waiting. Things were not very idyllic. C. A. Whitman was very obsessed with appearances, very obsessed, and he was also a very strict disciplinarian. He did not hesitate to use physical punishment with his children and also his wife. Oh, wow. He was an asshole. It does sound that way. In fact, he said later, I did on many occasions beat my wife, but I loved her.

No. No. No. If you can beat your wife, you don't know what love is.

That's not. Good try, though. He doesn't even say, I hit my wife, which is bad enough. I beat my wife, which to me sounds so much like- Barbaric. It's like they're all barbaric on every level. But it's like, for some reason, the term beat my wife just gives me like, shivers.

And to say it in the same sentence as, But I also love her.

But I also love her. And also he says it like, What? And it's like, okay. But he was also equally as unashamed about his abuse of his children. He said, I'm not ashamed of any spankings. I don't think I spanked enough if you want to know the truth about it. I think they should have been punished more than they were punished.

He sounds horrible.

He sounds delightful. Yeah. From a very early age, Charles, young Charles, was described as being an extremely bright, very spirited boy. One neighbor said he was a noisy little devil, but they said, But he was a nice little boy and made a handsome man. And it's true. If you look up a picture of Charles Whitman, he did make a very handsome man, and he looks like an all-American boy. He really does. And it's true. A lot of the Whitman's neighbors found CA, however, to be a disagreeable man. But according to Gary Leverne, who wrote the book, Sniper in the Tower: The Charles Whitman Murders, he said that basically the neighbors nearly universally characterized Charlie, along with his brothers as good normal boys, and they characterized the mother as a perfectly good mother. Okay. Despite being an abusive and very highly critical father, following his son's death, CA would tell reporters that Charles was, quote, a brilliant student who never caused trouble for his family. He's like, I did beat the shit out of him as a child, but he never caused us trouble. It's like, That's good.

So why did you beat the shit out of him then?

Yeah.

Not that even causing trouble would warrant No, but it's just like, wow.

By the time he entered grade school, it was pretty clear that Charles was advanced for his age. Many of his teachers said that he was very capable and actually a clearly gifted student. His teacher's suspicions were confirmed, in fact, in 1947, because he was given an IQ exam, and he measured 138.9. Wow. So he wasn't just gifted in academics, though. He also really loved music, and he started taking piano lessons around age four. And he went on to honestly be a very successful... Like, he would have been a successful pianist. And he was in a local band, actually, that played the piano. And he did well.

It's weird that he seemed so well-rounded.

He started off very well grounded, and things went awry. Things started to turn. But if there was anything about which Charles was truly passionate, it was guns. C. A. Whitman, the father, said, I'm a fanatic about guns. He said, I raised my boys to know how to handle guns. And following the shooting, evidence of Charles's love of firearms was obviously talked about in the press quite a bit. And in a lot of those reports was a photo of a two-year-old Charles Whitman standing on a beach holding two rifles, both taller than him. No.

Yeah.

Have your own opinions about guns. This is mine. No one's telling you that you can't have them. But I don't love that. But again, however your opinion on guns is, you are allowed to have it. That's totally fine. But the idea of a two-year-old holding two rifles is not for me. It's not for a lot of people. It's not for me. It's for you. That's fine. But this would seem to be one of some of the things that they had in common, like the father and the son. Sure. And C. A. Often actually bragged about this. He bragged and said Charlie could plug a squirrel in the eye by the time he was 16.

Why, though? Are you going to eat the squirrel?

Yeah, maybe. Who knows? But having spent most of his childhood in an orphanage, actually, C. A. Whitman, the father, he really struggled and worked hard to get everything he had. Well, that's one thing I will say for him. He grew up with nothing, so he worked to get everything he had. It also, growing up in an orphanage, you can now see where some of his behavior is probably manifested from.

And disciplinary style.

Especially orphanages around that time period. I don't know a lot about, obviously, his childhood, aside from being in an orphanage. But when you hear that, it makes a little more sense why he's very angry. Yeah. Obviously, C. A. Whitman drove his sons to be high achievers as well. He wanted to be a high achiever. He wanted perfection out of his family, which nobody can be perfect. No, absolutely not. You're driving for something that can happen, which is going to cause a breakdown eventually. But Charles was the eldest son, and he was the one push harder. Charles' father pushed him to join a ton of clubs and associations like the Cub scouts, boy scouts. He attained the highest levels of achievement in both of those, like an eagle cub. An eagle cub. Tbt. Tbt. Young Charles also inherited his father's obsession with accumulating as much wealth as possible. So he got a job right away as a paper boy as soon as he could meet the age requirement, which is good. That's a great thing. That was great. And he was successful because he was successful in most of, if not all, the things he did at that point.

But on the rare occasion that he did get any feedback or criticism for his performance, he tended to, quote, personalize customer complaints, which at first when I heard that, I was like, I didn't remember his birthday. And I was like, Is he a Capricorn? I was like, No, he's not. He's a Cancer. Yeah. Which I guess maybe that also could make sense.

Cancers can be very highly emotional and Sometimes, don't get offended. They can be vindictive.

Oh, okay. Interesting. Cancers hold a grudge. Okay. The idea of personalizing criticism for your performance seems very Capricorn for me. Yeah. Because I tend to do that. Immediately it becomes personal for me, which is not a greatest attribute to have. It harms you more than anything else.

I feel like it can be, obviously, it can do with your sign, but also your upbringing. I think that probably had a lot to do with it in his case.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Because it almost sounds like it was like... You're right.

Because it was like his dad criticizing him.

And telling him, you have to achieve this. Right. By the time he entered high school in 1955, he was, again, Charles was well-liked, pretty popular, excelled at most things, really had a lot going for him. His school friend Frank McCarthy actually said he was a thinker who never went off half-cocked. He was completely normal. Now, the idea of him being a thinker who never goes off half-cocked comes back later when he commits the atrocities that he committed because he wasn't half-cocked. He went And it was planned. He planned it down to the second. So that is almost a little scary of a sentiment to have about him. Definitely is. But so like most people who were interviewed following the murders, this guy, Frank McCarthy, remembered really nothing unusual about his high school career reputation, Charles's. Wow. Mccarthy really was just like, yeah, I don't know. During his freshman and sophomore years, he had good grades, good attendance. By his junior year, his grades had dropped somewhat, and he ended up having 26 absences that year.

Oh, wow. That's a lot.

Sixteen of those were because he had a surgical procedure done and he had to recover from it. That surgical procedure was to remove a blood clot on his left testicle. Oh, wow. Yeah. But even with all that, he ultimately graduated seventh in his class in 1959 with a 3.3 GPA.

With all of those absences and all of that shit he had to get Yeah.

That's crazy. So that's interesting. On the night of his graduation, he went out to celebrate with some friends, and they ended up drinking. Yeah, duh. Yeah, duh. Obviously. And when he returned home later that evening, CA lost his shit on him for coming home, slightly drunk. In fact, it was said he lost all control of his temper. Later, Charles told his priest and former Boy Scout Troop Leader, Father Joseph de Luch, that his father beat him severely and threw him into the pool where he almost drowned.

What the fuck?

Yeah. So when people question, I mean, obviously, a lot of people go through horrible things, which is a horrible thing to think about like this, and they don't go off to do the things that he did. But I think there's also a couple of injuries involved to his head that we'll find out later that I think also contributed to mental illness and some neurological issues. Yeah. Some TBIs. And this mixed with this upbringing came out horribly.

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And after years of this, after years of his father's constant abuse. And honestly, his tyrannical behavior at this point. That's exactly what it is. He's like a dictator in that house. It was the last straw. And he was 17 years old at this time, and he had been accepted to Georgia Tech. He would have If he went there, he was going to have to at least remain financially dependent on his dad. But instead, he chose to enter the military because he wanted to escape. And he wanted to start building his own life. So he was like, I want to cut ties. It was a way out. On June 27th, 1959, just three days after his 18th birthday, he enlisted in the Marines, and a week later, he boarded a bus for Jacksonville. So he was off. Charles Whitman had enlisted in the Marines, obviously, to escape. The unrealistic expectation the abuse of his father. All of it. Everything. Yeah, just get out of that house. But which also needs to be said, his mother was somebody he could count on and tried to really protect her sons from everything, but she also was being abused.

But from what I can see, his mother was never abusive, never anything but a good mom. A great mom, to be honest. But he had tried to get away from all that. But he soon learned that he had just traded one extremely regimened life for another. Now he's just going to be under the control of someone else. Right. After completing basic training, he was sent to Guantanamo naval base in Cuba. Wow. A very difficult post, given, especially at the time, the increasing tension between US and the Cuban governments at the time. But Charles tried to make the best of his 18-month assignment there. In an effort to be more well-rounded as a person, he took a lot of classes while he was stationed at the base. Apparently, he took classes from sanitation to history. All the way across the board, he was trying to keep detailed notes all the way through. He had this thing in his head, and he carries this a lot through his life, that he needs to be busy. Okay. He cannot be alone with his own thoughts, I feel like. That's not great. And this is a prime example of it.

While he was generally a good student and really excelled in most of his classes, he also found himself really drawn to the firearms training again because he loves guns. He was brought up to love guns. Gary Leverne wrote, Fairly early in his Marines career, Charlie established himself as a very proficient with guns. He took copious notes on the care and techniques of firing a three caliber M1 carbine. At the end of the detailed notes, he scribbled in large letters, World's Finest, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. On the firing range, he consistently achieved high scores and actually ended up earning a sharpshooter's In a very macabre bit of foreshadowing, he would be remembered as, quote, an excellent shot who appeared to be more accurate against moving targets. Wow. Which is a horrific bit of foreshadowing here. That's chilling. In general, his conduct during this period was pretty good. It appears people liked him. His fellow Marines liked him. Everything was pretty normal. Right. According to Larry Phillips, who was stationed at Guantanamo with Charles Whitman, he said Charles would, quote, do anything for others in his squad. However, at one point, Phillips and Whitman were in a serious accident, and that seems to have been the result of Charles' complete disregard for danger while in most situations.

Really? He had a very, I'm invincible way of looking at things. He was very... He could be very, like, irresponsible when it came to like, those situations and really following the rules by the book. And so an accident happened, and he ended up getting a head injury from It was like a Jeep accident. Yikes. While at Guantanamo, Charles learned of a scholarship program for enlisted soldiers that was known as the Naval Enlisted Science Education program, or NICEP. Nicep? Nicep? I can tell you. N-e-s-e-p. I was like, What is that? Which was developed as a way of training soldiers in math and science to try to compete with Russia, essentially. Okay. Charles applied in February 1961 and was actually among the few Marines selected to participate and started the program in mechanical engineering at University of Texas, Austin in September, which this is very highly prestigious. Absolutely, it is. He had spent his entire life now under the thumb of his father and commanding officers, just under the thumb of everybody above him. But now he had a newfound freedom. He wasn't under anyone's thumb now. He could study. He was part of this scholarship program, and he had difficulty adjusting.

It's almost like when people come out of prison and they trouble adjusting to being not regimen and not regulated. It makes sense. One night, not long after moving into his dorm, Charles and two other students illegally poached a deer and brought the animal's dead carcass back to the dorm. Why? Which, I'm tapping my head right now. Like, think. Use the gray matter between your ears.

Maybe don't do that.

A local resident spotted them doing this, however, like coming back into the dorm. And was like, Hey, what the fuck? They reported the poaching to the authorities, and police followed a trail of blood back to the UTA campus. They entered Whitman's dorm room, and they found the two of them skinning the deer in the dorm shower.

What's weird is you did say he took a sanitation course. Yeah. And then he just- And then he just did that. Dragged a deer through the hallway and brought it into the shared bathroom.

Yeah, and then just was skinning it in the shower.

That's bizarre.

That's unusual behavior.

Can Can you imagine walking in to take it? You're just at your college dorm, you're like, Oh, got to show. You walk into that, I'd be like, Oh, got to go. And it's like, what?

Like, that's bizarre behavior. It absolutely is. That should have been a pretty red flag to me. First of all, that's not smart decision-making skills. I'd be like, What happened here? And two, it's like, That's fucked up.

Yeah, I don't know if people just looked at it like, Oh, he likes to hunt.

But that's fucked up. I don't know. Even if you like to hunt, it's like, I don't need to see a deer being skinned in my fucking shower. What are you doing? Yeah, I don't know. Do your business elsewhere. I'm not telling you you can't. That's it, yeah.

If you want to do that, go for it. But don't do it in my shower.

There's a time and a place for everything. And my shower is not it. But it's so weird. But what's crazy about this is he got off with a light sentence. He was forced to pay a $100 fine. What the fuck? So they were just like, This is very bizarre, very red flaggy behavior, but we're just going to make you pay 100 bucks.

They don't drag a deer through the hallway again after killing it for no reason. Do it that again. And then skin it in the shower. Just 100 bucks, please. Yeah.

The fuck? So he was arrested at the time. He got arrested for it but let out. On the spot. So after that arrest, it was really just the first of several incidents that really indicated that Whitman was not taking this program seriously.

That literally sounds like Florida Man incident. It really does. It really does. Florida Man poaches deer illegally, skins in a local shower.

It's true.

I'm not past this yet.

No. It's true. It really is very Florida Man-ish. I mean, he is from Florida. He's a Florida Man. It makes sense.

He's a Florida man.

He's a Florida man. To our Floridian listeners, we love you. We love you. You're not that Florida man. No, we love Florida man. But it is very Florida man.

We had another crime countdown. We had four segments of Florida Man Crimes.

I have his crime countdown.

I have his crime countdown daily.

That was so much fun. Hi, Max. Hi, Max. But yeah, he wasn't taking this program seriously. Evidently. He also wasn't handling the increased freedom very well, obviously. You don't say. Because once he's up to his own devices, that's what he does. That's the first thing he does.

I get going a little buck wild. Oh, bad choice of words.

I get going a little wild, like when you have your own freedom.

But that's a different... That is buck wild. That's two buck wilds.

That's what that is.

You took that far too literally, my friend.

But during his first year at UTA, Charles was focusing way more on all that shit. And also, he was a gambler. He loved gambling, and he was focusing on it. And he was He was just focusing on every other weird wild hobby that he had going on. So his grades started plummeting. Yeah. He just wasn't focusing on it. No one was making him, so he wasn't. It's like your first year when you get to do online courses. You're going to feel that shit unless you're awesome because- Online courses are tough. Figuring out how to self-discipline is one of the hardest things you will do at first. Absolutely. And this is where he was. So given his reputation as a prankster, because he liked to do pranks, he was a jokester, all that stuff. And he would also make outrageous comments a lot, but they just took that as like, he's just a Joker, that thing. But his friend Francis Shuck didn't think much at all when one night, the two of them were sitting out on the dorm balcony, and Charles pointed up to the top of the campus clock tower and said, a person could stand off an army from a topet before they even got to him.

And Of course, his friend didn't... Why would they think? Yeah, no. Why would you think anything of that? That he's rattling off a future plan? Why would you think that?

And he's somebody who came from a military background. To a degree makes sense that he would make a comment like that, I guess. I don't know that I would think twice about that.

Yeah. So he just sat there and listened to him. And then he went on. Charles went on, and he described basically a scenario where someone could just fire from the top of the tower and just kill spectators with a rifle. Now, again, we look back on it knowing what we know, and we go, Oh, my God. Like foreshadowing, we knew. But think about it. How many times, hopefully everybody's on board with this, or I'm going to sound weird, but how many times have you been somewhere weird, like some weird ravine or something where you're like, Oh, my God, that goes down so far. And you're like, Oh, my God. Imagine if somebody just threw somebody down there. You think something weird and fucked up, and you're just like, Guys, imagine that. It's not because you're planning to do it. It's because you're like, Whoa, No. That's crazy.

That's a wild thought.

You know, like you think of these things.

And you think like, how scary is that? Yeah. Like, you're not. Who knows? Maybe he posed it that way. Like, how fucked up is that?

How fucked up would that be? And then his friend's just like, oh, yeah, that'd be fucked up. Like, holy shit, you're fucked, guy. Like, I can't. Yeah. That wouldn't strike me as somebody telling me a plan, especially if he's shown absolutely nothing to me that makes me think he's making a plan to do that. Exactly. So we got to get that, too.

No, I understand why that wouldn't really ring alarm bells in that moment.

Hindsight is 2020. Obviously. Now, after a year of pretty poor grades and some really shitty pranks, Charles finally started to take his schooling a little more seriously the following year, thanks in large part to meeting this woman named Cathy Lisner in February 1962. Unlike Charles, Cathy was very focused on her goal of graduating. She was getting a degree in education, and she wanted to be a teacher. Nice. But she was very charmed by Charles, and they started dating very soon after meeting, and she kept him on the path. Kept him in check. She gave him something to be like, You know what? I better get my shit together because look at this girl. Okay. Focusing on her shit. Yeah.

Hell, yeah.

And Cathy definitely had a positive influence on Charles. But having spent most of his time hanging out with friends and playing pranks on campus and gambling, his grades were just too abysmal to really pull out of the bottom here. Oh, wow. I got that bad. He was getting one A, and it was in algebra, which...

A for algebra? Cool.

But the rest were all like bear ladies. Like he was... Oh, wow. He let it get crazy. He really did. He had some Cs in there, but they were like, there was a lot of really abysmal ones. He did show a slight improvement in summer of 1962 after he married Cathy. Cathy that August. She really did. She had a good influence. And he seemed to be taking the program more seriously at that point, I think because he saw his future is with Cathy now. He knows he has to get his shit together.

I just brought up their wedding pictures, and it's so... They just look like any other old timey married couple. They look super happy. He looks very like a normal guy you'd wave to on the street.

The way he talks about her is like he adored her from what he said. Now, unfortunately for the Marine Corps, who had invested a lot into him at this point, these little improvements were just not enough. They weren't enough to justify him continuing that scholarship. In the winter of '63, he lost the scholarship and was called back to active duty and stationed at Camp Louzien. Okay. Now, when he entered the military after high school, he was trying to get away from an abuse of home life, which probably made that transition a little easier because he was leaving an abuse of home life and going into a place where he was also regimened, but in a different way and not being personally abused by someone he loved, essentially. But this time, the transition back into the military was a little more difficult. He's coming from independence. He had that taste of freedom. Yeah. He had failed pretty spectacularly, probably for the first time in his life at UTA. But his being assigned to Camp Lujet meant he had to leave Cathy behind in Austin because she was finishing her degree program. Right. These challenges set him off on the wrong foot right away on the base, and things really only got worse from there.

From the moment he arrived on base, he was very difficult, very insolent, very immature. His immaturity came out big time in this time period, way more than it had in the past when he was being, again, highly regulated. His early record of good conduct had earned him a little leeway because he had that good behavior in the past. But after a few months, it was becoming clear that he really didn't want to be a Marine. Now, according to Gary Leverne, Charles, had become embittered and formed a hatred of the Marines, especially after he was informed that his time spent in Austin would not count as part of his active duty enlistment. To make matters worse, although he was now back in the rigid confines of the military, he continued his problematic gambling and other really fucked up behaviors that got him in trouble at UTA. In October of '64, Charles and a friend got into a fight with four or five other Marines. And during this whole fight, he was actually knocked to the ground and repeatedly kicked in the head and face.

Yikes.

Like, repeatedly. Very harmed. Another TBI. He spent a few hours in the infirmary for dizziness and headaches, and he was given aspirin and then sent back to his bunk. Aspirin.

No doubt, concussed. Yeah.

No fucking doubt. You put that with the Jeep accident a few years earlier. And the years and years of being abused. That's the second of actually abused. Because think about it. When he came home that night after his graduation, his dad beat him severely and then threw him in the pool where he almost drowned. That's also lack of oxygen to your brain. Absolutely it is. So there's a lot happening here that is not good.

Oh, man.

Yeah, it's really bad. So if the first first phase of Charles's military career was a success and the second was a struggle, then this third would be considered a complete fucking abysmal failure. Oh, no. Throughout his time in North Carolina, Charles was honestly always in trouble, always admonished for being challenging, disruptive. He was still carrying on the excessive gambling. He would carry non-military weapons and get in trouble for that. His behavior took an even more dramatic turn when he tried and failed to get his scholarship back, that NES PP one, in April '63, which honestly was the worst thing that could have happened with him failing to get that back because it just made him hate the military more and it made him more bitter. In November '63, his superiors had finally run out of patience, and Charles was actually courtmarshalled for, gambling usury, and I looked it up, usury is lending money at high, like crazy high interest rates. Oh, shit. And the unauthorized possession of a non-military pistol. And he was ultimately found guilty. He was sentenced to 30 days confinement and 90 days hard labor. Oh, fuck. And then he was demoted back to the rank of private.

Yeah. So things are not going well.

Maybe Just do a little discharge.

Yeah, a little bit.

It doesn't seem like this is a great environment for him. You don't like it. It doesn't seem like he doesn't like it, and it doesn't seem like he's a good member to have. No. You know? I don't think this is working out on either side.

No, I don't think so either. Throughout '64, though, his life had taken, obviously, a very significant turn for the worst, and he seemed to be struggling on literally all fronts. He hated the military at this point. He regreted enlisting at all, but still had a large amount of time left before his discharge. So desperate, he turned to his father in hopes that his father's connections with Florida State Representatives could help him win an early discharge. It took nearly a year, but it actually worked, and CA's connections paid off. And he was Charles was honorably discharged from the Marines on December 6, 1964, and that's when he went back to Texas to join back with Kathy. Okay. So that's why I said before He had a successful military career because he was honorably discharged. Yeah. But it was a shit show while he was there. Yeah. Started off bright, but really plummeted. So he had a chance at a bright future, but he had literally gambled it away. Like, quite It was only after his death when his diary was discovered among his possessions. And that's when anyone really learned how much misery he was in during this period of time.

He referred to this time as, quote, the Pit of Life's Experiences. Wow. Yeah. Not only did Charles' diary entries from his final year in the military really show how desperate he was to be discharged, but it also showed how much he was very much investing in his marriage to Kathy and how it pained him to be away from her. Wow. Charles wrote in an entry from November '63, quote, It is so good to know that she loves and understands me. She's definitely the best thing I have in my life, or as I say, my most prized possession. I don't love that.

Strange way of saying it. Yeah. She went, Women aren't possessions.

People are not possessions. Having failed at his first attempt at getting a college degree at UTA, and then his failed military career, Charles had come to see the relationship with Cathy as It was literally the only good thing in his life at that point. It sounds like it was. It was the only thing that was keeping him going, to be honest. In the final days of his active duty, Charles wrote in that diary, God, I can't stand the core. My love for Kathy and my sense of responsibility to our unborn children is the only thing that keeps me from going beserk. At times, it seems as if I'm going to explode. So he's already showing that he's not handling his own inner turmoil well. No, not at all. Also, she's not pregnant, just so you know, but he was just thinking in the future. Yeah. So he's no longer being controlled by the military, and Charles and Cathy ended up moving back to Austin. And at this point, he's like, All right, I'm ready to take off. I'm ready to succeed. I want to be a family man. I want to be successful. What are you going to do?

He reenrolled at UTA, not with the scholarship program or anything, just his own thing. Before long, unfortunately, the old feelings of self doubt and frustration started creeping back into his mind. And he himself wrote in his diary about his concerns for his own mental health. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he said, I think she is just neglecting me as she says she is getting lazy. He's talking about Kathy. He was very insecure about their marriage. He was always worried that it wasn't where it should be. He said, I am undecided what to do, but I definitely feel as though there's something unusual in my mental state. I noticed an unusual uneasiness inside myself.

Oh, wow.

It's sad when you read his diary entries because he recognized it, but it's just in a private diary. Right. It wasn't like he went to his doctor or anything.

And who knows what would have been done back then.

It's the time period It's like, yeah.

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Now, when he reenrolled in the fall of '65, he changed his major from mechanical engineering to architectural engineering. He was excited about this option because he thought he likes creative endeavors. He thought this was going to be really where he can express his creative side. During this period, he also found a job as a bill collector for the standard finance company that he could pay his bills, him and Cathy's bills, but they didn't really have a lot of extra money. And by April, he took a new position as a teller at the Austin National Bank. He was determined at this point to fill his time. Fill, fill, fill that time. Don't have any time alone to think about your thoughts. When he wasn't working, wasn't going to school full-time, he volunteered as a Scout master with a local Boy Scout troop. But by January of '66, he had been asked to be relieved of his duties as Scout master because the pressures he was feeling from work and school were just too much. He couldn't handle the volunteering part. But that shows you how hard he was trying to fill his time. He was volunteering on top of all the shit he was doing.

He just didn't want to be by himself.

Now, despite the fact that his post-military life seemed to be going in a positive direction, there were definitely signs that he wasn't doing well, emotionally or physically, for that matter. By January of '66, he had put on... From everybody around him, they said he very quickly put on a noticeable amount of weight. He was suffering from frequent severe headaches, exhibited symptoms of very severe anxiety. He would chew his fingernails. He would sweat even if it was cold. He was just always on edge. And the self doubt and insecurities he felt about his marriage and professional life, it appeared to be coming up way more frequently now that he was back home with his wife. In his diary, he wrote, As I look back over my past few adult years, they seem so wasted. Will I ever accomplish anything I set out to do? Wow. So he was just really falling into an abyss.

Just sad.

Things continued this downward trajectory, too, as they entered 1966, because Cathy's really busy with her teaching schedule and her school schedule. And so it ended up being a frequent stresser on their marriage. They would get in arguments a lot because he didn't really know what to do when she wasn't there. He would panic when she wasn't there.

She's like, You need to have your own life.

Exactly. And he wasn't. And your own- He couldn't handle it.

And your own adventures.

Yeah. And he was able to maintain good grades during this period, which is interesting. It's impressive. But he struggled to make friends. Most people found him pretty difficult to deal with at this point. His mood had changed. His attitude had changed, which is a very big turn from when he was in that highly regimened but very abusive home. People liked him. Because I think that's the only thing he knew.

But it's also so indicative of the brain trauma that he had gone through.

It shows you after all that. People change. He has changed completely. Irreversibly. Yeah, completely. To make matters worse, he also struggled to maintain employment, and he changed his job several times between '65 and '66.

Which is a stress on his wife, too. And I'm sure that led to arguments also.

Yeah. She's really the one earning the most money at this point, which is hard.

And he doesn't even want to be home without her. Exactly. And she's like, do I have to fucking do everything? She's like, I have to work, man.

And to the world around him, he seemed like a nice young man who, despite some interpersonal difficulties, appeared to be patient, driven to succeed, trying to make the best of the situation. But he was living in an almost constant state of panic, anxiety, unease, discontent, nothing positive. Wow. It's pretty significant that he himself recognized these signs and symptoms of mental illness and neurological issues in himself at the moment, because at multiple points between '64 and '66, he did undergo routine physicals and evaluations through the military. If he had mentioned these things outside of his diaries at any point, he might have been able to at least start on the path to stopping the tragedy that was about to happen. Just mention it to someone.

You wonder what would have been done? Because I know, obviously, therapy back then, and especially for men, wasn't what it is now.

But I know- Maybe something.

Well, we're heading toward the '70s, so it's got to be progressing somewhat. I do wonder what would have happened.

But at the same time, unfortunately, like most Americans at this time period, he was facing the stigma of mental illness. And in fact, he himself actually had some pretty archaic views on the matter while he was struggling.

Well, it makes sense with where he was brought up and his lifestyle.

Yeah, precisely. And in '64, when his brother Patrick was actually having a difficult time emotionally, Charles wrote in his diary, I just found out that Pat ran away from home a couple of days ago and had a car accident in Kissamey, Florida. He was injured pretty bad. The boy He has definite emotional and psychological problems. Until he puts forth some effort to make good, I don't want anything to do with him. Wow. Which shows you how it was like- I just keep saying wow, sorry. But it shows you how archaic his own views are. Fuck that guy until he does his own shit and fixes it. I don't want anything to do with him. When support is probably what Patrick was looking for.

It's interesting because you can see them that he is volunteering all his time, taking all these courses He's trying to do all this stuff on his own. That opinion in and of itself shows why he's not reaching out for help.

Exactly. He should do it to yourself. He thinks this is his problem, and he probably fears being cut off by his family. Absolutely. I mean, if he thinks that about his brother, then he probably thinks the same thing would happen to him. So I'm not going to say anything.

That's really sad and so lonely.

It really is. Because of how he was raised and abused, he perceived emotional problems and mental illness to be a form of weakness. Right. And given that his post-discharge life hadn't really been working out the way he wanted it to, and that he was struggling to achieve even the most modest of his goals, he probably felt as though his symptoms would have really further derailed any future success for him. Instead of seeking help for the clear, growing depression and anxiety and distorted thinking that he was having, he just tried to suppress it all and just carry through like nothing was wrong. He was not doing a great job at it, obviously, because it was a lot more severe than I think he could have handled on his own. Yeah. Everything was far from fine. Entering the new year, he was struggling academically, professionally, personally, literally in every way you could struggle. But he continued to invest as much as he could into his marriage. At that point, like we were talking about before, Cathy was the primary earner in the family. That was also a big blow to his ego, especially at that time. And despite the fact that he outwardly said he adored his wife and acted as if he adored his wife, they had hit a rough patch in their marriage.

In the previous summer, Cathy had actually confided to a friend that she was thinking about divorce. Wow. According to her friend Fran Morgan, Cathy said Charles was, quote, a perfectionist and expected too much from her, which is his dad. And as an example, Cathy told her friend Charles would, quote, wipe his hand behind pictures hanging on the wall looking for dust. And on at least three occasions, he had lost control of his violent temper and hit her. So he's taking notes from his father. A hundred %. So that's why I say, he says he adores her.

And also, motherfucker, you're at home. If there's dust behind those pictures, that's on you, baby. She's out making the bacon. Working, going to school. Yeah. Getting the bacon.

And now you make it. Yeah. And in early March '66, Charles faced another Another huge stresser because he got a call from his mother on the night of March second, saying his father, CA there, had become very violent and she was afraid of him. Charles anonymously called the Lakeworth Police Department and reported a disturbance at the home of CA and Margaret Whitman, telling the dispatcher they're going to kill each other. Oh, God. But when an officer arrived at the house, everything was quiet. A short time later, he called the police again, this time saying that his father had, threatened to do harm to his mother and that he was on the way to Florida but worried something bad would happen before he got there.

Oh, that stress is unbelievable.

It's unclear what actually happened here, but two days later, Charlie did succeed in convincing his mother to finally leave his father. Wow.

After all those years.

And she returned back to Austin, Texas, with him and settled into an apartment near where Kathy and he were living.

It's also worth noting because I feel like listening to this story, I'm like, oh, he's probably in his mid-30s at this point.

He's in his early 20s. Yeah, he's young.

For anybody that doesn't know this story, he's in his early 20s, and this is everything he's going through at this point.

It's a lot. Now, Margaret and CA's separation was definitely an additional strain on an increasingly emotional Emotionally fragile Charles.

Yeah.

Although he wasn't exactly hostile, CA made strong and repeated attempts to convince his wife to come home. It was bordering on harassment at that point, especially after what he had done. It's like, fuck off.

I'm sure. It's like you've been abusive to her your entire marriage.

Yeah. Later, he would say, I'm not ashamed of the fact that I spent $1,000 a month on the phone bill begging her to come back. I kept begging Charlie to come back to me, too. I promised Charlie that if he'd only persuade his mama to come back, I'd swear never to lay a hand on her.

This is so talk sick.

That's also putting it on your child. Yeah.

And you have to imagine, I mean, like I was just saying, he's in his early 20s and he was the oldest. So I think there's- Yeah.

And- Younger.

And earlier, he mentioned one of his brothers ran away from home.

They're younger.

It's like they're They're experiencing all this firsthand. It's so sad how toxic this family is. It's very sad.

Charles said later that his father was calling daily or every other day. I mean, $1,000 on the phone bill back then. He's putting it on his child, you have to convince your mother to come back. No, no, my friend. You're the one that fucked up in your marriage. It has nothing to do with your child and their relationship between you and one of you. He didn't tell you to hit her. He's not part of your marriage. That's what a lot of people need to understand. Your child is not part of your marriage in that way. They have no responsibility to get you two back together or figure anything out. That's between you two. That's on you two. And it's like, what the fuck, dude?

And maybe you should have fucking thought one day she was going to leave if you kept beating her. Yeah.

You're just mad because she finally hit her breaking point and you lost out on the thing that you like to hit when you're mad. Exactly. That's fucked up. Now, at a time when his mental health was clearly deteriorating rapidly, Getting drawn into this separation divorce later would really only make things worse for Charles. Not only would it likely have made him even more paranoid about his own marriage, which was by then in trouble, but he also felt an urge to protect his mother and smooth things over with the whole family because he's the oldest. The stress had actually become bad enough that Charles did finally start talking to his friends about what he called the Gross disharmony in the Whitman household. In late March, he actually finally sought professional help from the UTA Student Health Center. Oh, okay. He attended a one-hour session with a psychiatrist, a one or two-hour psychiatrist session. When the session ended, the doctor recommended that Charles come back the following week for ongoing treatment and to call if he was in crisis or needed help before then. Well, that's great. But he never came back. And they can't force you to.

And it should be noted that, well, it was definitely like he needed to return for help, like that was part of the, he's an adult, he needs to come back for help. There might have been a reason for him not wanting to come back because according to other students who had seen that same psychiatrist, Dr. Maurice Dean-Heatley, around the time of Charles' visit, they reported that he was very unimpressive. He was not a good doctor. His demeanor, his clinical approach, not good. One student, Bill Helmer, said that while he was explaining his marital problems to the doctor, that the doctor, quote, talked on the on the phone to a driller engaged in the installation of a well on the Healy Ranch. Then he just wrote this guy, a prescription for Librium. Okay. As much as it was definitely he's an adult. He needs to say if he's going to go back, he should go back. But it's like, I think- Or seek alternative. That could have possibly been the reason he didn't go back.

Yeah. If that's your first experience, I guess I can understand not having a lot of faith in that approach.

Probably not. But in interviews with the authority parties directly after the shootings that would later occur, those closest to Charles would actually deny noticing any neurological deficits or evidence of a disability in his state of consciousness. So nobody was reporting that they noticed something He was like, disassociating things. He was forgetting things, disassociating things like that. But that wasn't entirely true. I don't know why people were reporting that, because in the months leading up to that summer, Charles had clearly been demonstrating some odd behavior, some disordered thinking. Some of this definitely could have been attributed to what had been prescribed to him in the spring, which was amphetamines. And he ended up becoming addicted to them.

Sorry, was that when he went to the psychiatrist?

Yeah, I think they just handed him a prescription.

Oh, first fucking appointment, you just get amphetamines.

Exactly. Jesus Christ. And he became addicted to them. But there were other symptoms. He had some increasingly bizarre beliefs about God and spirituality that were becoming more and more bizarre. And he had a very noticeable lack of inhibition when it came to talking about things in front of people.

Okay.

Like, he was inappropriate, you know? And he wasn't like that before. Every once in a while, When he was in the military, I said he would sometimes make a crazy comment or something. That was a little different than what this was. This was like, I'm going to talk to you about my sex life thing when I've known you for an hour. Interesting. In an interview with authorities the day after the shooting happened, Charles' friend, John Morgan, told investigators that the last time he had spoken with Charles, they had spent hours talking about philosophy, religion, marriage problems, sex, et cetera. Charles had some way out ideas about those subjects. Really? Yeah. He wasn't afraid to share them. According to Morgan, Charles was uncharacteristically open about his marriage problems. He seemed, as he said, over-sexed and talked at length about how much he hated his father, which were all things he wouldn't have talked about before, wouldn't have gone into that much of detail about. There were also other strange changes in his behavior as well. That spring, he had spoken extensively with instructors about his depression and told several of them that he planned to drop out of school at the end of the semester, which previously he was very committed to completing this degree.

That was one of his main goals. So these type of comments would have definitely seemed strange. Yeah, it's sudden. Out of place. Somebody would have been like, wow, that's a weird change, and we should look at that. Also that spring, after an argument with Cathy, he left the house and was just missing for an entire day. Cathy didn't know where he was, and he returned the following day. Still had no idea where he was. That sounds like it was out of character. Yeah, very out of character. Like, he hadn't done that before. Yeah. On the afternoon of July 31, 1966, Charles and Cathy 8, visited the home of John and Fran Morgan around 4:00 PM. John noticed then that Charles, quote, acted different and was extremely quiet. Okay. About two hours later, the couple left the Morgan's. Charles drove his wife to work at the telephone company, and she was scheduled to work until about 10:00 PM. Okay. So she was working really hard. She got two jobs. Cathy's supervisor later confirmed that she did finish her shift and left work a little after 10:00 PM. And it was the last time anyone saw her alive.

Oh, no.

Now, after dropping Kathy off at work, Charles returned home, sat down at his typewriter, and he wrote, I don't understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reasons for the actions I've recently performed. Oh, no. Now, the letter was dated and timestamped six 05:45 PM, which means he hadn't done anything yet. But this indicates that whatever reservations he might have had about his plans that he was going to carry out, they were gone by this time when he sat down at the typewriter. He went on to write, I don't really understand myself these days. I'm supposed to be an average, reasonable, and intelligent young man. However, lately, I cannot recall when it started. I've been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts. In March, when my parents made a physical break, I noticed a great deal of stress. I talked with a doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt some overwhelming, violent impulses. So he shared that with the doctor.

And then the doctor prescribed him amphetamines?

Mm-hmm. Good. I never saw the doctor again, and since then I've been fighting my mental turmoil alone and seemingly to no avail. After my death, I wish that an autopsy would be performed on me to see if there are any visible physical disorders. So he was literally being like, something is drastically wrong with me. I can't do this. I don't know why I'm about to do what I'm about to do, but I'm going to. And after I die, which I plan to die today, I I want you to find out what's wrong with me. That's a scary series of plans and thoughts. For someone to be so aware of the struggling, but so aware that something is severely wrong with me, but I don't know what it is. I can't imagine that feeling. No. I know a lot of our listeners probably either know people or have felt that way, that you're like, something's wrong with me, and I I don't know what it is. I can't imagine feeling that way.

It must be- Just so out of control.

That's the thing. When you're not in control of your own shit and you don't feel like you can get in control, that's scary. It is scary. I can't imagine that feeling. I really can't. Based on the note left behind, it's obviously clear that he intended to die that day. Either he was going to do it or he was going to have the police do it. But what's not clear here are his reasons for what he he did next, killing his mother and his wife.

Oh, he killed his mother, too?

Yeah. He hadn't done it yet. But he said, It was after much thought that I decided to kill my wife, Cathy, tonight. I love her dearly And she has been a very fine wife to me. I cannot rationally pinpoint any specific reason for doing this. That's terrifying. Yeah, it is. Charles was equally vague about killing his mother. He said, Similar reasons provoked me to take my mother's in his life also. It's like, no reason. I can't pinpoint it.

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Now, when he finished writing the note, he went back to the phone company to pick up Cathy, a little before, basically at 10:00. Oh, and she has no idea. No idea. They returned home. What's worse is they returned home. A short time later, he got a call from his mother. He left Kathy at home, went to his mother's apartment building, and she met him at the front door. She introduced him to the doorman, Dick Tompinson, explaining that Charles intended to study while he was here. Just nice little casual combo. The two of them went up to the fifth floor apartment, and once inside, he wasted no time killing his mother. It is unclear exactly what happened, in what order it all happened, because there was actually no autopsy done on his mother, Which I'm a little confused about. That's strange. But authorities found a length of black rubber hose at the scene and assumed she was strangled. But there was also a severe injury to the back of her skull, which Gary Leverne notes, quote, is commonly interpreted be a gunshot wound. But he said no autopsy was performed on Margaret, and those reports cannot be positively confirmed.

But he also stabbed his mother in the chest with a large hunting knife. Wow. So she was either shot, strangled, or stabbed, or all through. Like, she was all those things, but one of the who knows what the cause of death was.

That's insane. I do wonder why she didn't... I know sometimes people can put it in their will that they don't want to not topsy. Yeah, maybe that's what she did. So maybe. This is obviously a complete speculation, but because she had been suffering at the hands of her husband for so long, maybe she was worried that that might end her life someday, and she didn't want something to happen to him. Maybe. Because she wanted him to be around for the kids. Yeah, you don't know. I don't know.

But I'm- Because that's so strange that they just- That they didn't do an autopsy.

On a murder victim.

That's what blows my mind. It's like, what?

I would think nine out of ten times.

Well, before leaving the apartment, he Charles washed his hands, then sat down at the table and wrote a note. He wrote, I have just taken my mother's life. I am very upset over having done it. However, I feel if there is a heaven, she is definitely there now. And if there is no life after, I have relieved her of her suffering here on Earth.

Wow.

And once he'd finished the note, he carried his mother to her bed, covered her body with the bedspread, and left the apartment around 1:45 AM.

It's just so bizarre. It's so bizarre. It's so bizarre. It's so... It seems like he's so removed from the situation, but one part of him is still so present and connected. Connected to it?

Like placing her in bed. Yeah.

And to think that he relieved her of suffering.

Yeah, it's very disorder thinking.

After inflicting the most amount of suffering.

It's bizarre. It is. Now, he returned home around 2:15 AM and entered the house quietly. He snuck up to the bed where Cathy was sleeping in their bed, pulled back the covers, and stabbed her in the chest with the hunting knife five times in rapid succession, killing her almost immediately.

Oh, my God.

Now, with Cathy murdered, he replaced the bedding and covered her back up and then went back to the letter he started writing earlier on the typewriter. And in the margins, He wrote 3:00 AM, both dead. Isn't that chilling?

It's just so callous.

Now he had killed the two most important people in his life.

Yeah. I don't know if it's like he... Because he says he doesn't know why he did it. It's like, did he... But part of me just wonders, did he do it so that they didn't have to be aware of what he did afterwards, like what he was planning on?

Maybe.

Maybe he didn't even realize if that was the reason.

Yeah, subconsciously, that was it or something. He had such disordered thinking that there's really no way to tell.

No, there's not.

He sat down at the table again and he wrote three more notes to his brothers and father, and then he prepared for the next step. Now, The most shocking, I mean, there's so many shocking things about this case, but the way that he was so prepared, like I said, he didn't go into things half-cocked. That's what one of his friends said. Not at all. He didn't. He was very prepared for this. This was not the impulsive act of a desperate man. He had planned meticulously for his trip to the UTA campus, and he intended to be there for a long time.

Really?

After finishing his notes to his brothers and father, he went to the garage to get his old military foot locker. And into that foot locker, he loaded supplies, including three and a half gallons of water, three and a half gallons of gasoline, a hatchet and machete, an alarm clock, several hunting knives, twelve cans of different food, tons of lengths of rope. He also packed a 35 millimeter Remington rifle, an illegally customized twelve gage shotgun, a six millimeter Remington bolt action rifle, a 357 Magnum revolver, a 9 millimeter, I think it's a Luger. I don't know. I think it's a Luger pistol, and a 30 caliber M1 carbine capable of rapid firing. That's what he's bringing with him. Charles left his house a little after 07:00 AM and went into the direction of the UTA campus, but he stopped at the hardware store on the way and rented a two-wheel dolly to transport all this gear. Then he stopped at the bank and cashed two checks in the amount of 125 each. Okay. Then he was like, You know what? I don't think I have enough guns and ammo. So he made three more stops at Davis Hardware, where he bought another 30 caliber carbine and several more boxes of ammo.

Sorry, is that a gun?

I believe so. Okay. Then at Chuck's Gun Shop, he bought more ammo on top of that. And then he stopped at the local Sears and bought a pump-action shotgun and more ammo. The fact that you could buy a shotgun at Sears is absolutely mind boggling. It's Texas.

All I think of is in Me and Girls when she goes, You could try Sears.

I was thinking that, too. You could try Sears. That's how much this man is bringing. Three more stops to get Three more giant things of ammo and at least two more guns.

When he already has at least what?

An absurd amount.

An absurd amount. With him in a nuts amount of ammo. And like, canned food.

Oh, yeah. And like three and a half gallons of water. When I say he was planning to be there for a while. He was planning to be there for a while. He was going to cause some damage. And he does. But he was planning to do even more.

It seems like he was planning to be there for days.

Oh, I think he was. And honestly, he made He made it really hard for them to stop him. Really? He had thought of every single thing in this. And it was people got hurt trying to stop him. People died trying to stop him, like police officers. So while checking out at Sears, it occurred to Charles that actually he hadn't made any attempt to explain why his mother wouldn't be in work that day and that they would end up wondering why she wasn't there. And that could interrupt his plans because he planned to be there for a long time, and he didn't want to be interrupted by them trying to figure out where she was. So he drove back to the apartment. He placed a call to his mother's boss, told them she was sick and wouldn't be in that day. Then he re-arranged everything in the foot locker, packed it all back up, and he was on his way at about 11:00 AM.

And what about Cathy? Nobody's going to be looking for Cathy.

Apparently, that didn't cross his mind. He arrived at the campus a little before 11:00 AM, and he used the two-wheel dolly and made his way towards the little guard shack at the foot of the Now, when asked his purpose in the tower, he explained that he was there to deliver some equipment, and he showed them his campus ID card. And because he had been given lab access as part of his studies, his campus ID actually indicated that he was responsible for transporting large equipment. So the guard had literally no reason to believe that this was anything other than what he was saying it was. I have to bring equipment up there. Why would you think anything else?

He's allowed to do that. Yeah. And again, at this point, school shootings weren't a thing at all.

Mass shootings weren't a thing. Mass shootings at all, yeah. This was not a thing. So he allowed him to enter the tower. And once inside, Charles started frantically pressing the button for the elevator, and it wasn't working. So finally, the woman at the reception desk was like, Oh, I got you. And she switched on the power and the elevator came on. He looked at her and said, Thank you, ma'am. You don't know how happy that makes me. Oh, that would just be my stomach sink. Then before he entered the elevator, there, he turned around and shot and killed the receptionist, Edna Townsley, and then dragged her body behind the desk so that no one would find her. Oh, my God. So after she turned on the elevator for him and he said, Thank you so much, ma'am. That makes me really happy. Boom. Gone. Yeah. Riding the elevator to the top of the tower, he barricaded the door behind him and then stepped out onto the observation deck and set out the equipment all over the place. The first rifle shot rang out at 11:48. 8:00 AM. Shelton Williams, who was a senior at the school, recalled, A lot of people thought it was a car backfiring.

I attribute this to the fact that I'm from West Texas, but I knew immediately that it was gunshots. The first person to be hit was Marguerite Lamport, who was a 45-year-old tourist visiting the campus that afternoon with her family. Oh, God. Her nephew, Mark Gabor, was also struck with a bullet. The family had planned to view the city from the top of the tower, and they were were frustrated because they found the door barricaded. So Mark and his brother started pushing aside some things that were in front of the door, and Whitman fired at them through the door with a pump-action shotgun. Mark and Marguerite were killed almost instantly, and several other family members were wounded. The first call to police came in just after the shooting started, and officers were dispatched to the scene. John Pipkin, a senior at UTA, remembered being in a nearby cafe when it all started. He said, We were eating sandwiches when some guy busses open the door and jumps up on the bar and starts screaming for everybody's attention. He's yelling, You got to hear what I'm saying. There's a sniper up on the tower and he's shooting people.

Everybody in the place starts laughing and saying, Yeah, right. A sniper in the tower. Let's drink to the sniper. So everybody raises their beers and makes a big joke of it. And about that same time, we suddenly started hearing sirens. Oh, my God. Mass shootings were so fucking nonexistent that this was a joke. It was a joke. If someone ran into a place today and said, someone's shooting, not a one person would think that's a joke. Not a one person. No, no way. But everybody raised their glasses and said to the sniper in the tower. That's how nonexistent these were.

Yeah.

Wow. Now, from his position so high in the tower, Charles could never have seen the faces of the people he was shooting at. He was just firing. Indiscriminately.

And like you said, he was better at shooting a moving target.

Oh, yeah. He was a sharpshooter. Right. Freshman David Bayliss said, I ran towards Baths Hall, and I just got inside when the bell rang. People started pouring out of the classrooms. It was lunchtime and everyone was in a hurry. He actually tried to stop all the other students from walking out directly into the line of fire, telling everyone someone's shooting out of the tower. No one believed him. And they all just push past him and walked right out into the line of fire.

And to feel that helpless, like you're trying.

And no one's believe.

And again, what do you do to make people believe you?

That's how nonexistent this was. No one believed him. If someone said that today, the entire thing would go into lockdown. He'd be barricaded in the door. As it should. But by the time it became clear that he was telling the truth, it was too late, and the quad exploded into chaos. People were running in every direction, trying to find any cover. Junior Bob Higley said he was killing indiscriminately, aiming wherever he saw targets, riding their bicycles, looking at windows, walking down the drag. Eighteen-year-old Paul Sontag was shot next and was killed instantly, just walking. And his body fell right in front of the university co-op, and his girlfriend, Claudia Rut, was walking next to him, and she was also killed, shot and killed instantly. Oh, my God. By then, most of the students who were able to had escaped. And I'd gone to safety somewhere. But there were still so many others who were just now pinned down by the gunfire, and they terrified to move. Because if he saw you move, he was shooting you. So some of them were just pretending to be dead on the ground, just hoping that he wouldn't shoot in their direction.

They're just trying not to move a muscle. And some of them had found hiding spots, but they were hiding spots where they couldn't get somewhere else. So they were just hiding behind something and they couldn't get out of there. Michael Hall, who was a history professor at the time, said, To my left, there were three live oak trees. A young man was crouched down behind one of them, his fingertips touching the bark, terrified, staring up at the tower. It just paints such a picture. It does. Like the students and faculty on the quad, the officers who came to the scene couldn't get very close because they were targets as well. As one reporter described it, blood literally ran down on the sidewalks throughout the sprawling campus as the sniper picked off victim after victim. Charles had planned his assault very well and had set up stations around the observation deck, which allowed him to move quickly from one station to the other and could fire in multiple directions. So no one, especially law enforcement, knew where the next shot was coming from.

And they probably assumed it was multiple people.

Yeah, they had no idea. So they would be approaching from one end. He's shooting out of the other. He can shoot from that in a second. Right. And so it made getting closer to the tower very risky.

Almost impossible.

Claire Wilson and her boyfriend, Tom Ekman, they hadn't heard the shots when it actually began. They had been drinking coffee at a cafe nearby, and they decided they were going to put another nickel in their parking meter before it ran out, and they were just going to walk across the campus. So she said, We were walking across the South Mall holding hands when all of a sudden I felt like I'd stepped on a live wire, like I'd been electrocuted. And this is she told a reporter in 2006, I was eight months pregnant at the time. Oh my God. And Tom reached out for Claire, but then he was hit, too, and they both fell to the ground. She said, Mom never said another word. I was lying next to him on the pavement, and I called out to him, but I knew he was dead. Later, when it was all over, she also lost the baby. Oh my God. That's heartbreaking. Or I should say he killed the baby. Yeah. Despite all the chaos going around the quad, there were still some people who didn't even realize what was happening. It was the mid-1960s, and the anti-war movement was beginning to gain momentum, especially on college campuses in the US.

People were just becoming accustomed to seeing protests and other public events around them in these environments. Claire recalled, A conservative-looking guy in a suit walked by, and I yelled at him, 'Please get a doctor. ' He looked annoyed and said, 'Get up. What do you think you're doing? ' I think he thought it was guerrilla theater because we had started doing things like that to bring attention to the war in Vietnam. The conservative man didn't know what was going on. But when 33-year-old math professor Robert Boyer saw Claire and Tom fall to the pavement, they immediately knew something was wrong, and he for help. Robert's friend, Alfred Child, remembered Boyer as a free spirit by choice and inclination and told a reporter he did not believe Americans were gentle enough and that they were far too competitive, aggressive, and easily swayed towards war and killing. Yup. Seeing two young people in obvious trouble, Robert ran in their direction to offer help. But before he could reach them, a bullet hit his abdomen. His kidney was absolutely destroyed, and there was an extensive internal damage. It sent him flying across the steps that led up to the tower, and his body landed at the foot of the Jefferson Davis statue, and he died a few minutes later.

Just trying to save students.

And minutes later.

After witnessing the carnage on Holding in front of him, 22-year-old Austin police officer Billy Speed decided, I'm not fucking waiting anymore. Like, they were all hiding because they were trying to figure out some plan to get up to the tower. They didn't want to all just run out at once. That would cause more chaos. Us. But Billy Speed was like, Fuck that. I'm going to take this guy out. He was 22. With a fellow officer providing cover fire, Billy and this other officer, Jerry Culp, made a break for the tower and got as far as the Davis statue when Charles saw the two men and took aim, just as they were able to hide behind the base of the statue. The first shot hit the base and exploded the base like concrete flying everywhere. The second shot hit Speed near the right shoulder, but the bullet traveled to his chest and sent him just flat on his face. Oh, no. At first, the other officers were like, oh, he got hit in the shoulder. That sucks. But he'll be okay. But then they saw that his uniform was just soaking in blood. Charles changed position at this point because he hit his target.

That gave the officers the opportunity to pull Billy to at least a safe location out of the sun in the line of fire. And several civilians, including one nurse, ran over to them to try to provide aid and try to make Billy comfortable, at least. But they tried. Billy Speed died a short time later. And it's like these civilians all ran up to him. You know what I mean? Like, people were trying to help each other.

Endangering their home themselves.

Right. Now, again, it's understandable that the officers at the scene were hesitant to advance too quickly and risk more injuries. I mean, yeah. Because they also don't want to run out and endanger the people around them if he starts shooting wildly.

Yeah, or run out of officers. Yeah.

But after Officer Speed was killed, it seemed that a lot of the other officers lost any inhibition and became determined to get to the tower and stop him. One officer asked the commanding officer if they should shoot on site, and the officer replied, You shoot the shit out of him.

Yeah.

While the officer began making a plan to reach the tower, Charles kept firing from various points. Nearly an hour had passed already. Holy shit. In the remaining time he had, he would end killing 29-year-old Roy Smith, who was an electrician who tried to run his truck for cover. Harry Walchuk, who was a graduate student hiding near a newsstand. Thomas Ashton, who was a student attending a Peace Corps training class. Oh, my God. Thomas Carr, a young man who was walking down the street, just walking down the street. Just taking a walk. And Whitman's final victim was Karen Griffith, who was a 17-year-old who was shot and ended up dying a week later from injuries.

Oh, God.

Now, finally, after more than an hour and a half, four officers managed to make their way into the tower with underground tunnels. Oh, wow. Two of the officers guarded the front door while officers Ramiro, Martinez, and Houston, McCoy started climbing up the stairs slowly. And once they made it up to the top floor, they just made crept up to the door, and then they just burst into the observation deck. But as soon as he heard the sound, Charles whipped around and immediately prepared to fire. But before he could, Officer Martinez just quickly fired six shots in his direction. All six shots missed. But it was like a quick, just whatever they could do. It did do something, though, because it forced Whitman to lower his weapon long enough that the other officer, McCoy, aimed a shotgun and fired at his head. And it actually, in quotes, tore away his left side of his head. Wow. Now, Charles Whitman's rampage at the UTA campus lasted a total of 96 minutes, which is a long fucking time.

96 minutes.

In that time, he killed 14 people on that campus and wounded 31 others before he was finally shot and killed by police. Wow. When the ordeal was finally over, in all, 17 people were dead because his wife and mother and himself. But at this point, everybody was like, what the What the fuck happened? Why did he do this?

And how was he able to? I can't imagine the amount of questions people had.

And like we talked about before, unfortunately, now, mass shootings are a daily occurrence, which is fucking awful. But in the '60s, they were so fucking rare. And I mean, like, nonexistent. So his actions literally bewildered everyone. Nobody knew what to even think of this. Within a day of the tragedy, various law enforcement agencies in Texas were dispatched to gather information about him, hoping that something in his history or recent interactions with friends, associates, employers, anything, might explain something to do with this. Right. And those interviews did provide some insight. And what they found was this man had been slowly unraveling for months leading up to this shooting. Right. We know. But more often than not, his friends and family were just as stunned as everyone else. And two decades later, Charles' brother Patrick recalled the complete panic and confusion that he felt when he learned what happened. He said, I went in to listen to the TV, but the news bulletin didn't come right back. So I called the station and I asked them to repeat the news bulletin. At first, they wouldn't repeat it. So I said, My name is Patrick Whitman. Would you please repeat it?

Then I broke up and went and got my father. From then on, it was turmoil. They had to sedate me.

Wow. Oh, God. And he was already going through his own stuff, too. He was going through it. He had run away from home. Yeah.

And again, other than comments from people about his academic struggles, his employment issues, the marital problems, everyone was like, But why did you snap like this?

This is a big- Why did you go to the school?

Why are you killing innocent people Like, what are you doing? And why you can't... Like your mother and your wife, the two people who supported you the most. The most. And it's just like, How did it get this bad? Like, you planned this out. How did you get this bad?

The brain is a very fragile organ.

Yeah. So C. A. Whitman had to sign off on the autopsy for Charles Whitman, his father, because they wanted to determine whether he had a neurological condition or some other biological impairment that could even somewhat explain how something like this could happen. But the problem was the shotgun blast had obliterated a big chunk of his brain. And according to the medical report presented to the governor's office, quote, all of the pieces of the brain were not recovered examination. The doctors who performed the autopsy did identify a malignant glioblastoma in the right temporal lobe that they believe could have accounted for some abnormal, aggressive behavior, I'll say. But that being said, the consulting neurologists did acknowledge pretty quickly that, yes, there was a presence of a tumor. But they said, The application of existing knowledge of organic brain function does not enable us to explain the actions of Whitman on August first. So basically, they're saying, Yeah, he has a brain tumor that we found.

But not everybody with a brain tumor is going to do this.

And aggressive behavior, absolutely. That can happen for sure. But this, they're like, We don't have any precedence that says that this is what happens when you have this brain tumor. You know what I mean? Exactly. They're like, take it and add it into all the other things that are going on and the different injuries to the head, the history of abuse, all that stuff. The J-box Sure, take all that into consideration. But this alone is just this alone. In the years that followed, people continued to struggle to understand why women had done all this. But just as many were happy to put the whole thing completely behind them, they didn't even want to talk about it anymore. Reporter Robert Herd told the Austin Statesman in 1996, It's worn out its welcome as something to talk about. If ever it had one in the first place. So he, he thinks we should stop talking about it. I don't think so. I disagree in a big way. Still haven't figured out why he did it. So I feel like that's a pretty important thing to talk about. Absolutely. And Gary Leverne, who wrote the book that we will cite in the show notes.

He disagrees with that sentiment. He can understand the sentiment, but he was like, you need to talk about it.

You can't just not talk about tragedies and expect them to disappear.

Yeah. He said, superficially, you could say the city and the University are in a state of denial. People don't want to go back over it. The University actually shut down access to the tower immediately after this, and it was closed to the public for nearly a year before the Board of Regents voted to open it, June 1967. It wasn't long, though, and this is really tragic, before a number of students committed suicide by jumping from the observation deck in the years after that. Oh, God. So the top floor was once again closed to the public for decades, literally. You can understand Yeah. A former student, Larry Faulkner, said in 2006, The university stance has always seemed to be to try to erase what had happened. It was like an injury that would never heal. And honestly, he's pretty right because the University of Texas, and nearly all of Austin, for that matter, seem to just want it to go away, disappear. They wanted everyone to move on, which I can understand that sentiment for sure. Nobody wants to relive a tragedy, especially in your hometown, forever. But you can't erase it. Well, you have to acknowledge it.

Yeah, you have to acknowledge it.

And you have to acknowledge everybody that lost their lives.

Exactly. You can't just pretend that didn't happen, unfortunately. That's not fair. You got to learn from it is what you need to do and move forward. It wasn't until 2016 that the university formerly acknowledged the tragedy. They hadn't even acknowledged it, really.

2016?

That's when they placed a plaque about a half block away from the tower. Took a long time. That's ridiculous. And the plaque says, The University of Texas at Austin remembers with profound sorrow the tragedy of August 1, 1966. This space is dedicated as the Tower Garden, a memorial to those who died, to those who were wounded, and to the countless other victims who are measurably affected by the tragedy.

That should have been there long time ago. In 1967, '68 at the latest.

But as for why he decided and chose to murder 16 people that day, that day of all days, nobody has figured it out. We can speculate. We can say all these things put together, but a lot of people go through things.

Yeah, but some people do just break. Yeah. And there's got to be something to it. And I think someday we'll find something in the brain that disconnects from another area of the brain.

Yeah.

But it's like, now that it's so common, unfortunately, there's got to be some shared piece of disruption disruption internally that people are going through.

That's the thing. Because even now we can't pinpoint why this happens and why is it happening so much now? None of us can say that.

It's like, are we spending enough time studying this area? I know.

Are we looking at the right things? It's so hard to... I don't know. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. What a case.

Yeah. It's a tough one.

It is a tough one. And I definitely think it's important to end on a note if If you or someone you know is suicidal or in emotional distress, you guys should consider using the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. You can call or text 988 or even chat online to connect with a trained crisis counselor. The lifeline provides 24-hour confidential support to anybody in suicidal crisis or emotional distress. There's also the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. That National Helpline, you can call 1-800-662-HEALP, which is 4-3-5-7. Again, that's 1-800-662-4-3-5-7, or you can text, help4you to 4-3-5-7-4-8.

Yeah. And we love you. We love you.

And we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you... Keep it weird.

I'm not going to do one for this one.

Yeah. Yeah. Love you. Love you.

If you like Morbid, you can listen early and odd for you right now by joining WNDYRI Plus in the WNDYRI app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wndri. Com/survey. I'm Afwaash. I'm Peter Frankerbern. And in In this series, Legacy, we look at the lives of some of the most famous people to have ever lived and ask if they have the reputation they deserve. In this series, we look at J. Edgar Hoover. He was the director of the FBI for half a century. An immensely powerful political figure, he was said to know everything about everyone. He held the ear of eight presidents and terrified them all. When asked why he didn't fire Hoover, JFK replied, You don't fire God. From chasing gangsters to pursuing communists to relentlessly persecuting Dr Martin Luther King and civil rights activists, Hoover's dirty tricks tactics have been endlessly echoed in the years since his death. And his political playbook still shapes American politics today.

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