Transcript of Gary Linnen: Unlocking the Power of Peer Leaders

In the '80s, one of the most memorable lines of a Whitney Houston song said, I believe the children are our future. Well, today's guest took that literally and is impacting the lives of so many youths. We're going to talk to Gary Lennon about Peer Forward, the nonprofit he created that's helping young kids get into college, but not how you think. This episode, we're going to talk about why your peers are more influential than your parents. We're going to talk about the fundamentals that all kids need to know about college, and we're going to go deep into what Peer Forward is doing and the mission that Gary Lennon is fulfilling. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Mr. Gary Lennon. Gary, how are you doing today, brother?

Good. I'm good. How are you?

Dude, I am great now that I'm talking to you. Gary, when I was growing up, there was a song, and the first line said, I believe the children are our future. I think you heard that song, too. But Gary, you're one of the few people that took action as actually doing something, man. I wanted to applaud you for doing the action because a lot of times we talk, and a lot of times we'll support, we'll donate, we'll do some things. But as you know, it takes a lot more than just pats on the backs to do the things that you're doing. So I applaud you, brother.

Thank you. You hit on the nose, right? It said a lot of people do a great job of talking. The question is, can you walk? Are you willing to do? I'm humble and just grateful that I get the chance to be around just some phenomenal folks that people just tend to overlook.

No, totally agree, man. Now, I want to start by asking you the question of when did you know that that was something that you were supposed to do?

Great question. I'll start with an interesting journey to me getting here. I'm from Spanish Harlem, grew up... I'm of a certain age, but I grew up during the crack in AIDS epidemic, if you will. As an individual growing up on welfare, low income, college was never the goal. It was about, let's just get out of high school. If you could do that, you've accomplished a lot. But interesting enough, I was always in the talented and gifted program. So the Oliver program found me in junior high school, and it was like, Hey, you're smart. So are some of your friends. I remember getting called in the office, and I was like, Why? Am I in trouble? They were like, No, you're actually smart. I was like, Oh, forgot that part. Got chosen, and they gave me an option. And the option was to either go to a private boarding school or a private day school. In New York City during that time, that wasn't really something that we've ever thought about. I was like an independent school, sure. But I knew that I needed to leave. I chose a boarding school. Against my mother's wishes, against the family wishes, it was What do you mean?

You're going away. But I knew that during that time, I needed to get out. Because if I didn't get out, I wasn't going to get anywhere. And so that was my way of like, Yes, finally, there's an opportunity. So I go to a private boarding school, West Town School. Shout out to them outside of Philadelphia. And if you could imagine, it's a private Quaker school. So coming from the city and going to a Quaker school, I'm like, okay, turn to the light. I was like, Oh, my goodness, what are you talking about? But at That changed my entire life because it gave me the opportunity then to go to Cornell, which was never on my list. I was able to meet lifelong friends that I still talk to today. And throughout that journey, what I learned is that there were individuals in my community that were just as smart as me, if not smarter. And for some reason, every time I came home, they were still on the corner. They were still on the block. They weren't doing anything. And I'm like, Hold on, I'm given a chance. Why Why not them? And that for me, internally, bothered me because I look at my sister.

I have three sisters, and I look at how they struggled. And I'm like, But I got out? And I just don't like that notion of you get out and you don't give back. And so that's how I got into this work. I graduated from Cornell, went into PR for a little bit, didn't like that. I used to work... Because for me, it was inauthentic to me. It was business to business PR for technology companies. Then I started working with the Princeton Review. As you could imagine, that's helping the elite to be able to get... Helping everyone to be able to get into college, but it wasn't fulfilling for me. And then, lo and behold, this position opens up. During that time, we were known as College Summit, and I just happened to be searching, and it was like, Hey, we're starting the New York office, and we're building a team. And it was in that moment, I was like, I got to try this out. This pretentiousness, or not even pretentious, I mean, it's a viable career, but people paying $20, $30, $30 for a tutor, it was not filling my cup. It wasn't giving me joy.

The moment I came over to College Summit and I went to the first workshop, I was like, This is a doggone cult. I got to go. Because everyone was hugging each other, and I wasn't used to that. Don't touch me. But they were hugging each other because they knew, we knew, We were doing the heart's work. That, for me, is what was fulfilling and why I've been here now 18 years.

I love it. That's the journey of how you got there and why you started it. Now, I'm going to ask you the question I usually ask all my guests, What's your because? What's that thing that's deeper than your why? Why do you continue to do what you do? What's that purpose for you? What's your because?

In the years of when we started the New York office, the organization was founded before beforehand by our three cofounders, but I took over afterwards. There are two gentlemen, Michael Faron and Adon Penny, that I met while in New York. My because is because of the relationship I built with them and the brotherhood that I built. And I was like, Hold on, you can actually have a brotherhood with folks, and they don't look at you any differently. And for them to say, You are like a father figure to me, like that, I could not measure because I didn't have kids during that time. And so I do it because individuals need somebody that looks like me, that talks like me to be in their corner when they are at their lowest point to be able to say, You can actually do that. That's my because. It's fulfilling every day to have… I'm looking at it. One's a lawyer. The other one works for one of the big four, and I'm like, wow. I think I did something with that.

That was me. That's awesome, man. That is so awesome. For the viewers and listeners, now let's talk about Peer Forward. Talk about what it is that you all do.

Yeah, thank you. So Peer Forward, formerly known as College Summit, started in 1996, a little bit before then from our predecessors here in DC. And what we learned is that we were actually just helping people with their college applications at first. They were bright young folks at a community center, and it was like, Hey, you should go to college. I went to college, you should go. And what we found is they all applied to college and they all went. It was like, This is cool. Let's run a workshop. The workshop was focused on helping them with their essays, helping them get together a college list from some very reputable individuals to support them that they never had access to. But then also tapping into their why. Why should you show up? Why is it important for you to know that you're worthy? Those are the three elements. I can help you with the transactional stuff, but I need you to believe in yourself as well. That That edifice, when we started, started running like wildfire. What we found is that while we were helping those students, they were going back and helping their friends. It was like, That wasn't our intention.

Our intention was to help you. But everything that they learned, they went back and told somebody else. Then we got into this idea like, Hold on. Friends helping friends, that's interesting. It happens all the time. How can we actually put that in a bottle and expand it? Because what we do know is that a 17-year-old is more inclined to listen to another 17-year-old. Any of us that have kids, family members, young folks, you can talk to your blue in the face, but the moment their friend validates it, it's gone. We was like, Why not take that? Because that's what we're considering, positive peer pressure. Leverage that to make them do positive choices so that it's not just the adult saying, Go to school. It's a friend saying, I'm going, so that means you're going with me. Let's go. And that was the birth of College Summit Now Peer Forward. We've been around being able to impact close to 700,000 students since our inception. We are in 12 states and in Bermuda, so just excited to be able to have that international threshold. But in the states alone, New York, Philly, the DMV era, Florida, California, Texas, Detroit, Colorado, Hawaii, all the different areas is where we know that every single child that we have been able to support, they want to help their friends.

They want to be able to succeed. The way in which that we do that is by tapping into the power of peer pressure, positive peer pressure, to be able to support folks.

I love that, brother. One of the things that you do is you match the students with what? Three programs, three schools, three universities, at least three?

Yeah. They get a list of 10, but they're to apply to at least three. The reason why is because research shows that if you have more options, as we know, you're more inclined to go. Also, they're required to fill out their financial aid forms early. You'll be surprised, particularly for students in low-income communities, they are typically the last one to fill out their financial aid forms when they're the individuals that should be first in line, not last in line. We were very intention about getting them to do this stuff early so they can maximize the benefits of going to college. The third piece that they're required to do is about connecting academics to college and career. We also acknowledge that as a ninth grader, you may not know what you want to do. But having a twelth grader say, Hey, if you were 10 years from now, if I saw you, what would you be doing? If they said, I want to be a detective. We're like, Great, no problem. Or, I want to be a doctor. Fine. But the 12th grader is telling them, If you want to be a doctor, you may want to come to class.

How about you get out the hallway in order to be... It's not the guidance counselor saying it. The guidance counselor is always going to say it, but it's coming from a friend which makes it relevant to them. That has by far been the most remarkable way of being able to increase college-going culture in our school systems.

I love that, and here's why I love it. Back in the, I'll say my decade, back in the '90s, when I graduated high school, I I knew I was going to the University of North Carolina because I was a Tarhill. Carolina Blue was my favorite color. Michael Jordan went there. I didn't necessarily know what programs they had. I didn't know what schools they had within there. I just knew that I was going there. So I applied, got a scholarship, I'm there. Luckily, what I enjoyed, they had. But I didn't know that. In the '90s and the decades before that, there wasn't the Internet where you You didn't literally go see and do matching. You didn't really go visit schools. You didn't have folks from schools coming out the Career Center unless it was a local school. I grew up in South Carolina. University of North Carolina wasn't coming to my high school to tell me about the University of North Carolina. I applaud the fact that, yeah, the kids can look online, but you're actually helping provide that research as well, too, which I think is the most critical to make sure that the school aligns with you.

It's never going to be perfect, but you have better capability of finding that alignment now than you've ever had.

That's why the type of student that we... They're called peer leaders, both in high school and the college space. The type of student that we look for is the most influential student in the building. The reason why is because people, when they walk, people watch them. When they talk, people listen. It could be the class clown. It could be the person that's cutting class. It's that mid-tier student because that That allows there to be a belief system for other folks in that school to say, If Johnny can do it, and I know Johnny been playing around all day, then I can as well. But the cool thing is that Johnny is sharing information, and it's right to your point. It's about fit. It's not just about, Hey, I'm a student. I need to go to college. I'm just going to apply to the school up the street. They're asking the questions like, What do you like? And what don't you like? Do you want to stay on campus? Do you don't? Do you know how to do your own laundry? Or don't you? Do you have requirements or commitments within your family that won't allow you to leave?

Because what we found is we had a lot of students going into college, but they were not graduating from a college because it wasn't the right fit. No one asked them the right questions. They just went ahead and said, I'll apply to the school, but there was no yearning to want to stay. And that's why we started up here for it in college program. So We've been on the high school side, but our folks were coming back to us and say, Hey, whatever you did for me in high school, my friends need help in college because they're leaving at large rates. Can we do something? That came from our alumni. It wasn't even us. We didn't think about it in that space. Our alumni came back and then we created a college component so that it's the same model, friends helping friends, to be able to stay in college, minimize the amount of debt, and get a degree that's viable for the economic future.

Gary, you're the perfect person to have this conversation with. I want to talk to the viewers and listeners about something that I'm noticing because my oldest son coaches football. In the last three years, he's been at the college level. Every day during enrollment for the football team, he calls me and he's like, Dad, it happened again. Dad, it happened again. Gary, here's what's going on. Children Those are kids, youth that are going to college day one, they don't understand the things that they need to survive, like having their ID and what their ID numbers are, their social security numbers, their mother's maiden name. I'm going to say this, things that I took for granted, right? Things that I talked to my kids about. It didn't have to be a long conversation. It was just, Hey, these things you got to make sure you know how to do. Little things like that. Forget laundry, right? Forget Financial literacy, all that. We're going to talk about that, too. But just the basics of you got to know some things. And day one, you're going to need to know those things. Like, literally, my son Jay is listening to this right now.

He will tell you how many times someone will drive or fly in out of state and literally have to go back because they can't register. They can't get their dorm room because they don't know how important it is to bring an ID. They don't understand how to fill out an application. Talk to us, talk to the viewers and listeners, to the parents, to the students about just the fundamentals that you've got to have to survive.

It's funny you mentioned, I'll tell you this quick story that it's a generational thing. I don't get it. My nephew just applied to college, which was great, but he used my email and my number. I'm getting all these calls from colleges as if I went... I was like, What do you mean? The rudimentary, the basics, use your number, use your ID. My name is not Nazea. Why are they calling me looking for you? I think that's the challenge that we're seeing across the board, particularly with just young folks, about understanding the basic needs. That's where it's important for us as an organization, school systems and friends, to have that type of checklist. Like, Hey, in order for you to go to college, here's the five things you need to understand. It's back to understanding what are the different academic offices that are there? What's the personal information that you need to make sure that you have? What are the emergency contact information that you need to have? Because you're getting there and what happens if you stomp your toe or whatever the case may be? They just don't know. It's sad, but we're seeing that across the country.

I think as parents, whether you went to college and or not, we understand that there's basic things that our individuals, our young folks need to have, and we have an opportunity to make sure they have them, regardless if they go to college or not. It's like when you're turning it at age of 17, 18, you need to know your social security number. How do we educate folks to be like, Hey, these are the five things as you go into adulthood that everybody should have. Unfortunately, in the age of the internet, information goes too quick and it's not landing well with our young folks.

You just brought up something, too, about email. My youngest son, who's in grad school at the University of Miami, only has an email account because he needed one for the University of Miami. But I'm starting to see College is now on applications, and I love to get your viewpoint of this, they're asking more about what's your preferred social handle so that they can communicate with you that way. At first, I was like, Why are colleges doing that? But then I realized, I'm just getting older and I'm turning into that stubborn old grandparent. You can't be doing that. But I was like, Okay, I guess it does make sense because this generation, I have team members, employees that, yeah, they're going to check social before they check an email. Talk us through what you're seeing that type of shift in colleges and universities.

We are. I graduated in 1996 from high school, and it's the same. Same. There we go. Email was important to us. It's a It's a generational thing that we're finding. Social media is always going to be what we've learned the easiest way to get to them because it's the way in which that they communicate. We try our best to say, get on email, get on email, but the reality is that we have to pay attention to the market. And that means looking at social media and using that. You have to diversify the way, and we're doing this, diversify the way in which that you're communicating with folks. But it's not going anywhere. Secondly, though, the challenge with that is that our young folks use social media for both public and private use. And so how do we educate folks to say, colleges want your handle? Why? Because they're looking at what type of person are you? If you have an account that can have individuals question the type of person that you are, then that's probably not the best handle that you want to use because it's another way of screening folks. That's just the reality of where they are.

I think our young folks don't know that. They're like, Oh, yeah, follow me on some random name. That's one. Secondly, we're trying to educate them on the names that you use because it can't be sexy something. You're giving that to an admissions officer. So part of our education is great. If they're going to ask for a handle, make sure it's a formal one where you're not posting what you're doing at the dark.

Absolutely. Remember, things you did two and three years ago are still there. So you should probably do some type of audit on your social media as well, too.

Yes. It's funny. I had a change mine years ago. I was sitting on the board, and I had my handle from college my entire life. The moment you become a public figure, they're like, Hey, remember what you did at Cornell in 1999? I was like, Whoa. Yeah, let me go ahead and get a new handle.

Yes, sir. Gary, man, what are some of the metrics or KPIs that you as a CEO look at to determine the success or the areas that we need to improve with Peerfort?

I'm going to break it up into two sides. For the high school side, the major KPI is, am I getting individuals into college College. We're looking at College enrollment data. What we're finding is that for our peer leaders, the individuals that go directly through our program, there's a larger 10% increase. So 60% of them are actually enrolling in College versus 50%, which is the national average. We're outpacing the national average, but there's still work to be done in that. That's one major KPI. The second one that we're looking at, particularly for participants, is around FAFSA completion. We know that you can apply to all your schools, but if you don't have money to be able to get in and sustain it, then you're not going to go. What we found is that schools that partner with us, they have a 26% higher FAFSA completion rate versus others, which unlocks about $100 million more in financial aid for students and/or school partners with us on that side. Those are the two main ones that we look at, enrollment data as well as financial aid completion, if you will. On the college side, we're looking at retention.

What we do know is that, generally speaking, individuals are graduating about 20% of individuals graduate by the age of 24 in six years. That is a significant challenge. The major drop off tends to be between their first and second year. We look at fall to spring retention rates and fall to fall retention rates. What we found in some of our partner schools is that due to that mentoring program, we have a 71% higher completion rate of individuals going to college and decreasing the amount of time it takes for them to do it, which has been very, very promising for us on the college side.

That's deep, Joe. That's totally deep, man.

But I would say those are the transaction with the major KPIs. The one that we cannot measure that by far is anecdotal, is the transformative experience for our young folks. The fact that they come back, I mean, literally from 1993, and they're still volunteering with us. They're still serving as a writing coach. 60% of our staff are alumni. We've been very intentional about that. It's a part you can literally never measure because it's the heart of the connections that literally is immeasurable and an invaluable experience for them.

You know what that tells me, Gary, is that you've created and established an amazing culture because culture is something you can't talk about. Culture is something that's felt. Culture is something that's seen. Good or bad. I'm telling you, you have an amazing culture. The fact that you have alumni that are coming back and donating time and donating wisdom speaks volumes for you and the leader that you are. Give yourself another pat on the back for that one, brother.

Thank I appreciate that. It's a blessing and a curse because I'm like, Go home. They don't want to go home. But I love it, though. It's like you have that whole family where you create a community where we I'm not going to have a slum party all dog on day. But I'm like, I need you to go home. Yeah, you got to go home.

You got to go home. Gary, so for the viewer or listener right now that is intrigued with what you're doing, and they're like, Hey, I don't have Peer Forward where I'm at, but I want to be involved in the community and with the youths. What's some advice that you have for them to start? Again, they don't have to start what you've created, but to start that impact and that transformation.

One, I think it's about small wins for them. The ability to be able to help at least one person in your community and share. It doesn't necessarily need to be about getting them into college, getting them out of college, but helping them to tap into their own potential. Something as small as saying, I see you, goes a long way because they're individuals that are not seen. Sometimes we really forget how powerful that goes and how long it can go. The ability just to say thank you for showing up, affirming your friends, goes a long way. I think sometimes society, we look for somebody else to do it when we have the to be able to do it. I love that, brother. Just affirm your friends. Affirm yourself. Look in the mirror one day and say, I'm beautiful and I'm worthy and I'm going to show up in my best way.

I love it.

When they're ready, call me because we can come in that community. I'm okay with that, too. We're looking to go into new markets as well.

That was going to be a personal follow-up question for me. What do we got to do to get in the Carolinas, man? What's that process like?

We used to be... Yeah. So interesting enough, we used to be in South Carolina years ago, and my family's from Dunbar, South Carolina. But we were near Columbia. Columbia? We could talk offline, yes. More than happy. I think, Lower Richmond area. Happy to get back. One of our colleagues lives in South Carolina as well, and he's definitely like, Hey, we need to get back. It's nothing more than a conversation with a district, a school that says, Yes, this type of program is what we need. Then my team is to be able to find out the philanthropic support because it has to be both. We want to make sure that the investments are there, the community is there, because we want to help everybody, and that if I could be in every state, I would.

There you go. Okay. Gary, man, I appreciate you so much. I want to get you out of here on the top five, though. So it's my rapid quickfire five questions. Yes. Ready? All right. First question, why did you hate PR so much, man?

During that time, it was too transactional for me, and you had to like, Oh, my God. Hi. How are you doing? That's not me. It's not. It was not my field. I was just getting used to talking to folks. I was like, Never mind.

Look at you now. Look at you now. All right, are you a less chatted coffee shop or less chop it up on a whiteboard person? Where are you drawn to first?

Whiteboard.

Me, too.

Yeah, whiteboard, definitely. Me, too. Yeah, Whiteboard all day.

All right. What's been a book that you can always go to? What's a regular read for you?

I'm going to draw a blank, but it's Social bandwidth. Why am I drawing? It's this book that talks about everyone's social bandwidth and the fact that when you wake up, you start at 100 by the time you get out the door, you're probably at 70. How How do we acknowledge that? And knowing that there's a huge disparity with our young folks. It's Social bandwidth.

We'll put a link on it.

It's a blue book that's sitting on my desk.

We got you covered. Speaking of mornings, what's a daily non-negotiable routine for you? No matter what, you're making sure this gets done.

Great. Calling my kids. I have a five-year-old, four-year-old, and now a three-month-old. Because I'm on the road so much, there's no negotiation. If I'm home, it's blocked up. I have to pick them up from school. I have to take them to school. It's non-negotiable. I won't take a call in the car with them. Because we got to sing Chris Brown Residials every day. That's our song, together.

Every day. All right, so last question. What's What's your theme song? Gary Lennon is about to walk on stage. What's the song that's playing behind you?

I'm Coming Out by Diana Ross.

There you go. There you go. Walking Out to It. I love it. Gary, man, where can people find and follow you? I'm going to make sure I have links to Peer Forward, but where can people find and follow you?

They can definitely follow me on Instagram. It's ZebyJLM. I can definitely send that to you. And or follow Peer Forward. That's the easiest way to get us on Instagram as well as on Facebook and all social media handles. But we do a lot of... There's a lot of visibility there. Also on LinkedIn, you definitely want to find me. Hit me up on LinkedIn. It's learn more and have an have a conversation with folks.

I love it. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been Gary Lennon. He believed that the children were the future and is doing something about it. Gary, brother, I thank you from the bottom of my soul, man.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

You got it. To all the viewers and listeners, remember, your because is your superpower. Go unleash it.

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