Transcript of Break Free of Emotional Cycles & Become a Self-Healer with Dr. Nicole LePera | Mel Robbins

For people that are brand new to the idea of healing, of trauma, of nervous system dysregulation, by asking you a question. Do you believe that the majority of breakdowns or mental health issues that we face as adults go back to the issue of stress, trauma, hypervigilance that you experienced during childhood? Absolutely.

That also is to include, however, the structural brain neurological changes. This is where we can, I think, as a field, get caught in a little bit of the chicken or the egg. Because, again, because stress does imprint on us, biologically, genetically, a lot of us do then see or are born with even structural changes in our brain and balances in neurotransmitters. Again, the field is still the psychology field that is, and the medical field, I'm being perfectly honest, is still learning, is still evolving, is still growing. It took until within the past decade for us to realize that one of the number one things, I'm sure maybe some listeners have heard of neurotransmitters. This idea that when you're diagnosed with a mental illness, whatever it might be, your neurotransmitters are off, a hormone in your body that impacts our mood. While that is absolutely part of the story for a very long time, we located the neurotransmitter production and maintenance in our brain. Now we understand that it isn't just our brain that creates and produces and uses neurotransmitters, it is our gut. Now we have another whole part of the body that is impacted by decisions that we're making, food we're eating, pollutants that are in, toxins that are in the food that we're eating, habits around eating the food that, again, were passed through generations.

To simply answer your question, we can't localize it to just one exact factor in my opinion, which is why I'm such a proponent, and I shifted the way that I work and think and practice and teach into a more holistic model because it's all of it. The reality of it is there are structural changes, there are imbalances in our nervous system, there's dysregulation in our nervous system and imbalances in our neurotransmitter, I should say, that are creating then the symptoms that are resulting in diagnosis. My hope is to take the whole picture into account and to give people the opportunity opportunity to explore the deeper underlying causes, because that's the area where we can begin to intervene by making new choices, by creating a different internal environment for ourselves, by creating a different external environment for us to live into, can then help us resolve some of those long-standing symptoms.

So I'm going to give you a personal example, okay? Because I think it will help people start to process where we're going to go with this conversation by thinking about this example, and I will be the, I will be the emotionally immature parent in the example, okay? So we have a daughter who has just started to talk openly about the fact that she feels very stuck in life. In her words, that she does not feel alive, that there are very few experiences happening in her day to day life where she feels truly alive. And the The other thing, and this is a little joke, is that we say, We love you because you don't take yourself that seriously. She's really, really funny. But you take everything else seriously. She is the typical hyper vigilant, on top of everything, stressed out, got to get everything right. When I apply your work to this situation, knowing that she's talking to a therapist, I say that as her mother, when she was born, I had severe postpartum depression. I had an incredibly traumatic birth, and I was, in your words, emotionally immature, which means I, personally, as a new mom, and just as a human being at the age of 29 or 30, I could not handle my emotions.

I screamed, I vented, I was very unpredictable. And on top of it, for the first eight weeks of her life, because the postpartum depression was so severe, Dr. Nicole, and I was so heavily medicated because it was a dangerous situation, psychologically and physically for me, I couldn't take care of her. And she has now Now that she's an adult and in therapy, and she just did some really interesting guided psychedelic therapies, has had now a memory of that period of her life as an infant and really being in distress wanting me to come and just remembering my husband coming and one of our close friends that would sit with me while my husband was at work, while I was very sick. And she also has had this experience in therapy of realizing that I really wanted to be there. But that core experience very much cemented a experience of the world for her. And I, of course, was just passing down the lineage of stressed-out, volatile, intense, not that warm behavior that I grew up around. When I look all the way through my That lineage of immigrant working in coal mines, domestic servants, farmers, like work, work, hard.

And I look at her, and as she's talking about a job, and she's talking about doing this, and I'm thinking, actually, this is about you healing. I hate to say it this way, so please correct me, but I feel like the damage I did to you because I didn't know any better. I want to commend a couple of things here, Mel.

First, your honesty in sharing these experiences and also the environment that you've since created, it sounds like, to the extent that your daughter is able to begin to share these realities, these conscious awareness that she's having, because that is a gift, to be able to communicate honestly with those closest to us, especially those that might have been a participant in whatever, the circumstances that we lived in our past in our earliest life. That is such a gift because few families, I think, have at any time, and I know my family in particular now, we're just recently starting to be able to share things with each other in honesty, share what our different realities I have two other siblings are, and allow that to be the case. So that is absolutely something to celebrate. And the reality of it is when we don't have the resources to take care of ourselves. When we're stuck in this dysregulation that we're talking about in our nervous system, we're stuck in a survival mode in and of itself of our own. And so my heart, I actually felt myself welling up in emotion hearing you share that story for not only your daughter, for you as well.

You were sharing the awareness that she had of you wanting to be present. I think postpartum depression is one of those rarely talked about experiences that is so, I think a lot of times it's on how it is for the child of that disconnection, though, how painful it is for the parent who in their heart wants to be. I think this is the case with all of us, with all parents, is there's a lot of well-meaning, well-intentioned individuals that are of two minds within themselves, if they're even aware of it or not, of wanting to do, to show up in whatever way, and attuned, and to connect it in a loving way, oftentimes wanting to reverse patterns that they know didn't serve them from their own childhood, yet not being able to. Because the reality, and I use the term survival mode to really highlight the reality that when we're in survival mode, and this is all just driven by our nervous system, so it's not anything logical, our survival is our priority, which means that a child, a loved one, a partner, isn't where our attention and our resources need to be allocated at that moment.

It's quite literally in us getting through the next few moments of life. And this might sound dire, which is why, again, I'm just offering that this is all driven by our ability to survive, by our evolution as a human. So this is, again, where we are of two minds, where we might desperately want to show up, to connect, to be attuned to our child, and our body might not be prioritizing that child at all. It might be prioritizing us and our survival and us making it through the next moment, however difficult that moment is. And so, again, I just want to thank you for your honesty and Shining the light on a topic as this, because I've spoken and worked with in my past practice, a lot of women who were so shameful about the experience of having that deep rooted depression, even of this is another controversial, I think, to admit, of maybe being of two minds about how it is to actually be a mother. There might be a very well intention part that does want to show up and does want to be in care of a child. And the reality of needing to be in care of someone else for 24 hours a day is It's very difficult.

It's very challenging, and there might be then conflicts in and of itself. So again, I want to commend you for your honesty, and I want to commend the environment that's being created in your home where these things can be talked about. Because I think the more we're able to, again, be non-judgmentally honest with ourselves and with other people to relieve ourselves like you're even sharing. When I look back in time, I see the same patterns, just like I experience with my mom. When I look back at her family experience, it's cold, it's disconnection. She literally had a father who came home from work. He was the financial support of the household, put up his newspaper, and quite literally ignored the children. So it's not surprising that the mother then, emotionally, that I was born into, didn't have the tools to emotionally connect, no matter how much she wanted to do different and knew that that was a painful experience for herself, she was locked in her own survival mode and was just simply unable to.

Yeah, I agree. And And in sharing the story, it actually is somewhat liberating for me because I don't want to pass down that generational cycle or trauma of being in survival mode and having a conflicted relationship with giving and receiving love. And what I can so profoundly see is that since I'm catching this in myself at 47, and I'm still working on it, my kids probably, I'd say at least six or seven times a week, go, Watch your tone, mom. Watch your tone of voice for me, is when my emotional immaturity kicks in, when my inability to tolerate something. You know Mel Robbins is now her eight-year-old self because her tone of voice goes nasty, just like I heard in my household, the tone of voice in the adults around me go nasty when I was years old. And so I want to make it very clear as a takeaway for people that if you are resonating with this idea of being in breakdown or feeling stuck or feeling disconnected in your adult life, first of all, we all go through it, if not a lot, a couple of times, right? A couple of big breakdowns everyone goes through.

So it's normal, but it's not... It's good news because your awakening that your current way of living on autopilot or being shut down, or in the words of my daughter, not feeling alive, that's not how you're wired or meant to live. And so this moment of consciousness is an opportunity. And I will also highlight that through my own example, the first place I want you to look is I want you to look at Dr. Nicole's work, because what she's saying is the first place to look is in your childhood and how you have gotten to a point as an adult where your ability to tolerate discomfort emotionally is no longer serving the life you want to live. And I'm willing to say, through experiences I did not mean to create for my daughter, I taught her hypervigilance. She had to become the adult. I wasn't even able to be the present. And I feel terrible about that. Do I wish I could go back and wave a magic wand? Absolutely. And I know for both of us, there's this huge opening present for both of our healing, not to mention our ability to have a mature, loving relationship on our own terms versus being in a relationship that is driven by the patterns of our lineage and what we were taught when we were children.

Does that make sense?

Oh, 100%. I'm shaking my head very ravenously over here because I also think it's important for me to state as well is I still have moments where for me, my reactivity comes out as passive aggressive, snarky, underhanded comments where I'm not able to directly say it is how I feel to another person. Again, because without that attunement in childhood, without that safety, I learned the act of suppressing it, of going away on my relationship and not ever saying what was really wrong. I also have a habit of disconnecting from my loved ones, my relationships, of literally going and walling myself off in my bedroom and then holding them responsible for not coming in and not being connected and not supporting me when I need it. I like to use this visual. It's as if I have my hand held out in front of me and I'm demanding, sometimes even with daggers on the end of it, and then demanding someone come and give me a hug. Again, all of this for me, you said something really beautiful that I think is important to touch on. All of this goes back to, for me, the inability to be emotionally connected, to give and receive love in my childhood.

And as counterintuitive as that sounds, especially for all of us in relationship, Many of us, few of us, I should say in adulthood, actually have had that lived experience of giving and receiving love for being who we are, for just sharing how it is for us, what we think, what we feel with another individual. So while as much as I might, and this was so much of my life for so long, all I desperately wanted was to be connected. I would leave partners because you weren't able to connect with me. I didn't feel close to you. And it took until the awakening that began in my early 30s, because it was several years of time before I was able to see myself as holding those daggers out, see all of the ways I was disconnected from my own authentic emotions, not sharing them with other people. How am I going to be deeply and authentically known someone else? I never gave anyone the opportunity because for me, it felt so scary, so vulnerable, so threatening that having those daggers out and blaming you for not coming closer was that safe zone. It was just a replication of that early experience, again, that was created in my household with all of my family members, but namely around my own mom who wasn't equipped, didn't understand, probably had a deep-rooted desire, like I was sharing earlier, to be emotionally connected, but didn't know how herself Ourselves.

Yeah.

I mean, we only can do what we've been trained to do until we wake the hell up and heal ourselves and teach ourselves to do something different. Energy brain theory. And 30 years as a Harvard psychiatrist, what are the new research-supported breakthroughs in terms of what you would tell somebody listening to implement immediately if they or somebody that they love is in the category of really struggling with a brain that is not metabolizing correctly, and it's showing up as ADHD.

So if the symptoms are clearly interfering with ability to function- And what does that look like? If it's a child, let's say, not doing well in school at all, getting very poor grades, getting into trouble all the time, has trouble keeping friends even because friends Kids feel like he's too wild, he's out of control, he doesn't sit still, he's always getting into trouble. I want to stay away from him. So this kid feels dumb, feels like he's a troublemaker because all the teachers are telling them that.

Or a weirdo.

Or a weirdo. And all the kids, all the other kids are even agreeing. And certainly, if the parents and the family feel the same way, like you're just a troublemaker, Why can't you sit still? Why don't you do what you're told? Then I would say, Okay, things aren't going well for this kid. We have all of the basic treatment options still on the table. Psychotherapy, behavioral interventions, cognitive behavioral therapy, all those things, and stimulants, and a couple of other medications, those are all on the table, and those may all play a role. But again, they may or may not work. For some people, they can make the condition even worse because now they're interfering with your sleep or they're making kids a different person, a monster. So if that's the case, but I would argue even before you get to medications, let's do a common sense assessment of some basic lifestyle factors.

Is anyone else thinking at this point in the conversation? Why the heck didn't I hear this a decade ago? I mean, that's what I was thinking, and I'm sure you wish you have heard this information earlier, too, but let me tell you something, you're hearing it now, so you can be empowered by the information. So let's hear a quick word from our sponsors. They bring this to you at zero cost. And when we come back, we're going to jump back into the conversation where Dr. Palmer will break this down step by step so you can apply this to your life when we return. Welcome back. I'm Mel. I'm so glad you're here with me. We're talking to Harvard's Dr. Chris Palmer. Right before the break, Dr. Palmer was outlining the fact that there are all different types of options when you're dealing with a neurodivergent condition like ADHD. And one of the things that he said, before you jump to medication, consider his metabolic theory and use diet and lifestyle changes as a way to improve neurodivergent symptoms that people feel from conditions like ADHD. Now, I was all in in that moment, and I wanted him to break down, Okay, well, great.

Happy to try that. Glad I know about this, but where do we start? How do we get going on this? So let's jump right back into the conversation and listen to Dr. Palmer break down exactly what he means when he says, Improving your diet and lifestyle choices.

Let's do a common sense assessment of some basic lifestyle factors. Let's look at diet. Is the person eating mostly processed foods? Is the person getting adequate nutrition? So that means adequate vitamins, minerals, other nutrients, adequate protein. Is that happening? Yes or no? Like you said, there can be lots of reasons. Picky Eater, upset stomach. I get it. I can hear all those questions. But if those things are not happening, if person is not getting adequate healthy nutrition, that needs to be on the table as one possible intervention of something that we might want to look at to address.

I think it's even more important than that, because I have never been in a psychiatrist, psychologist, neuropsych evaluation, therapist office, where the first thing that somebody asks is, well, what are you eating and how much exercise are you getting? And there's typically a question about screen time at the end and to limit it, but not from a metabolic standpoint. The conversation is always like, how How do you feel? What are you thinking about? What do you want to talk about today? And you're talking about physical changes in your lifestyle that have a direct research-back impact on your brain's metabolism, which impacts ADHD and anything that's neurodivergent.

Yes. That what we're eating is affecting the way your brain functions, which may, in fact, be playing a role in what you're thinking how pessimistic or how optimistic you are, whether you have crippling depression or anxiety, or whether you have mild depression or anxiety, or whether you have mild concentration problems or not, or whether you're happy and healthy. And that we need comprehensive human health care. We need to look at the whole person, and we need to understand that what they're putting into their mouth and whether they're sleeping at night, and whether they're on screens, what they're doing affects It's their brain, too.

This makes so much sense because we know it in the opposite, right? If I come home from a stressful week of work and I make a beeline for one of those burgers that you need both hands to hold, and as you squeeze it in on the brioche bun, it starts dripping grease down your arms. I'm like, and I'm eating the fries, and then I slug it down with a beer. What do I feel like after I feel like a human job of the hut. I just want to slither down into my chair. I am low energy, laying there. And the thing that I put in my mouth absolutely changes the energy in my body and the way that my brain is functioning. And so from a common sense standpoint, this makes perfect sense.

So it depends on the person, and different people are going to do better with different diets. I just want to say that upfront. I also want to be respectful of people's dietary preferences and choices. So if you want to be vegan or vegetarian or omnivore or whatever, you can do that. However, there are some common themes. If you have a child with very severe neurodiversity that's really interfering with life, if maybe they have ADHD and they're a little bit on the spectrum and they've got some learning disorder issues and other things, one thing to consider would be an elimination diet. There are lots of different types, but Elimination diets are basically looking for food sensitivities. So is this person in front of us? Is their brain function being impacted by the gut-brain connection? That's really the question we're asking. More and more research is telling us, yes, there is a very strong bi-directional relationship between the gut and the brain. So the brain impacts the gut, the gut impacts the brain. And that means if you're eating food like gluten and you're allergic to it, it's inflaming your gut. And that is traveling up to the brain.

That message, at least, is getting up to the brain and influencing your brain function. And that might result in ADHD or other neurodivergent symptoms.

I just want to be clear that I'm tracking. You're basically saying that if you have a child with ADHD, or even if you are an adult that suspects that this could be you, simply trying an elimination diet, that by removing certain food groups and seeing how you respond from a metabolism standpoint, you could see a dramatic reduction in mental health symptoms or focus symptoms. Because your thesis and all your research is that anything that your body is processing, it is either going to be good energy or it could really interfere with the energy that your brain needs. And when that happens, you start to have these symptoms of being neurodivergent. Is that what you're saying? Yes. So if you are allergic to gluten and you're eating gluten, it could cause ADHD symptoms. It could cause It could cause you to feel depressed. And simply figuring that out could actually alleviate those symptoms?

A hundred %.

That's insane.

There are thousands and thousands and thousands of people like that who- You know what I love about you and your research?

Because I'm just really getting this now that we are in part two of this series, is that we've been thinking about food in the wrong way. When I think about friends that have allergies, you think about allergy because you swell, or you itch, or your neck swells. You're actually saying that same crap is happening in your brain. Yes. Of course it is. And that's causing you to be anxious. And so think about sensitivity to food and the way that your body can't really metabolize it as affecting absolutely everything, but especially that thing between your ears that is the conductor for your entire life, that it is swelling because of it, it is misfiring because of it. And so starting with an elimination diet would be revelatory in terms of what you might discover about how you feel.

Yes. And for most people, it's a big ask. An elimination diet is not easy depending on how many things you're going to eliminate, what you're going to do. But for most people, they can figure it out within about two weeks. If you eliminate a wide range of foods over two weeks, and there are some classic ones, gluten, some people are sensitive to dairy, other people might be sensitive to soy. Sugar. Sugar. Some people can be sensitive to artificial dyes and sweeteners and other things. If you go with a whole 30 diet or something else that's going to eliminate a lot of those types of foods. And you give it two weeks. If you notice dramatic improvement in your brain function, now you've got a little bit of a project on your hands, and now you have to figure out what exactly am I sensitive to? Because you're probably not sensitive to all of it. And you want to come up with the least restrictive, most fun, easy diet to do. So you want to really try to see, can I zero in? Can I add some of these foods back? And as you're adding those foods back, you're really paying attention to the brain symptoms to see, Am I getting worse?

Are things coming back? And if symptoms are coming back when you add back gluten, then you know, Okay, gluten was it. And maybe I would do better with a gluten-free diet. If you don't want to do an elimination diet, or if an elimination diet doesn't necessarily tell you what you want to know or doesn't give you the symptoms, higher protein, lower carbohydrate, sticking primarily with whole real foods more than you normally do.

What I'm hearing is I'm hearing chicken côtlets, not chicken nuggets for all you moms and dads out there.

Absolutely. A lot of people will notice significant benefit, and I would give that probably at least a month. Give it a month, see if it makes a difference. If it doesn't make a difference, don't keep doing it. I'm not asking people to make sacrifices with no clear return on investment.

Well, what's interesting about when this episode is releasing is we're going to be in the middle of dry January. And you may be listening to this at an entirely different time of year, but you will have had experiences in your life where you go without drinking for for a period of time, or you go without gluten for a period of time. But if you're listening to this and you're in the middle of dry January and you're having that experience where you're like, Oh my God, I removed alcohol and I sleep better and I'm more focused, and I have more energy Maybe this is a really good thing for me to just continue doing this. This is exactly what you're saying, that your metabolism is 100% driven by what you eat, what you drink, whether or not you exercise, whether or not you are on screens or getting connection and what your sleep is like. And when you improve those things, your metabolism improves. And what you're also saying is, so does your ADHD.

Yes.

So does dyslexia. So does a a zillion other things in your life.

Yes.

Is there a form of exercise that's better than another in terms of your metabolism?

So the two best strategies are to increase muscle, the The more muscle we have, the more metabolically healthy we will be. Now, I know sometimes women balk at that, and they think I'm encouraging them to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I am not. I'm just saying just a little bit of healthy muscle tone can go a long way.

And can I be honest about something? If you already are not exercising enough, you are likely not going to exercise enough to bulk up and have the neck of a weightlifter. So if you can just get your butt to the gym three days a week, like Dr. Gabriele Lyons was on our show, and start doing some resistance training, you're going to win.

You are. And to quote one of my male friends speaking to women who are afraid that they're going to get too big. He said, Do you know how hard men have to work to try to get just even a little bit of extra muscle? Do you know how much time and energy we put into that? Trust me, you are not going to just bulk up out of nowhere by accident. So it's just not going to happen. The other type of exercise I would highly recommend is called zone 2 cardio. So it's basically a lower intensity cardio that you can do for maybe a half an hour to an hour.

I think I've heard David Goggins talking about this. This is like the light jog where you can hold a conversation. I mean, I would not be able to do that for a city block, but that's what a zone Zone 2 is, right? That you're elevated heart rate, but you're not...

Yes. Not out of breath. You can still have a conversation.

Hiking would be an example of that for me.

It could be hiking, it could be cycling, it can be swimming. There are lots of options, many options for zone 2 cardio, but both of those will improve metabolic health, mitochondrial health. And then reducing substance use. So If you are on substances that are impairing your metabolism, please cut down or stop. That includes things like alcohol. It includes marijuana. I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade. Everybody loves A lot of these days. It's legal. It is not good for your brain health. It's not good for your metabolic health. If somebody's on psychiatric medications, even that are causing weight gain, those might be working against you over the long run. So trying to think of strategies to slowly but surely get off those substances, smoking, vaping, absolutely not good for you.

Be happy. What does it mean to be mentally well? What it means is that the emotions you have are actually in concert with what's happening in your world. I think that, I'll see you and raise you, mental health is often defined by experiencing distress. And that is 180 from where the culture is right now.

So often, mental health concerns and distress are treated as though they are one and the same.

But I'll give you several examples.

It's so easy, of where the presence of distress is actually evidence of mental health, right? So if the kid gets dumped, we expect distress.

The absence of it would be concerning. If a teenager has a huge test tomorrow and they have not started studying, we want to see some anxiety.

The absence of anxiety is more concerning than the presence of anxiety.

If someone's really mean to you, if you're a teenager or an adult and someone's really mean to you, we expect to see hurt and then probably a self-protective anger. Those are all unpleasant emotions. Those are all unwanted emotions. Those are evidence that we work exactly as we should. And so to pathologize all of that means that people are spending their normal healthy days feeling like there's something wrong with them when in fact, that distresses proof that they work perfectly. Lisa, you're a genius. No. I just had this huge breakthrough because you're right. We have just painted with such a broad stroke that guilt, fear, shame, anger, upset, heartbreak, that somehow that makes you weak when what you're actually saying is, No, no, no, no, no, And it's also data.

That's the other way we think about all of our feelings, negative and positive.

They tell us how things are going. So if every time you have lunch with somebody, you walk away feeling stepped on and diminished, that's really good data. Don't have lunch with that person if you can help it, right? And if you go to a job interview and it feels just thrilling to be in the space, that's good data. Emotions, psychologists are surprisingly agnostica about them.

We don't really value positive ones over negative ones.

It's just all information, and our job is to take it in. Now, let's talk about those five things that are taking up way too much of your mental and emotional energy. Because here's the thing, when you're trying to control everything, you can't focus on anything that's truly important. And the first thing that I want you to stop wasting mental stress and energy on is the weather. You can't control the weather, but you can control whether or not it bothers you. Let me give you an example. So I live in Southern Vermont, and it's April. Technically, supposed to be spring up here. My daffodils and tulips are starting to poke through and come up, and I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I put our winter coats away. Well, guess what happened a few days ago? I woke up and there was freaking snow outside. Oh, Here's the thing. Why would you waste any mental energy on that? Why cause stress? Why get frustrated? You can't control the weather. I mean, it would have been easy for me to pull open the shades and look outside and see my beautiful flower beds all covered with snow, right?

And then to start stressing out about whether or not the bulbs are all trashed and, Oh, my gosh, I spent all this money in these bulbs, and now they're not going to buy. But here's the thing: does stressing Thinking about it change anything? No. So why on Earth do you and I let it affect us? Now, I know it can feel obvious hearing me say, You can't control the weather because you can't. But if it's so obvious, why do we cause ourselves mental distress. Why do we complain about it? Why do we spend time working ourselves up? I'm thinking right now about how much energy a bride or a groom burns through in an entire Every year, as they think ahead and they worry about what the weather is going to be on their wedding day. Why do that? You can't control it. Once you have your plan A and your plan B, you're all set. So why even think about it? If it rains, it rains. But common sense isn't so common. And the weather does control you. I mean, how many times have you canceled plans or bailed on a run because bad weather has affected you?

And I'm not talking about a tsunami that's hitting or a situation that's dangerous. I'm talking about normal, predictable, seasonal weather that you can expect. You've let a light rain shower prevent you from going outside and going on that walk, haven't you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, the dog can let itself out. I'm not going out in that stuff. Or heaven forbid, when it's super humid, that you leave the air conditioning in your house. You'll cancel plans like that. Unless you work for the weather channel, you waste way too much time thinking about it and being impacted by the weather. Here's what I want you to remember. A passing shower isn't going to kill you, so don't let it kill your plans. And it also passes. When there's a cloudy or stormy day, and my friend Josh says this all the time, you know what's still up there above those stormy clouds? A bright, beautiful blue sky. Think about that moment on an airplane, where you go through the clouds and then you get up above the clouds. What's always up there? A bright blue sky. Bad weather is actually an opportunity. It's It's an opportunity, if you look at it the right way and you don't let it control you, for you to practice discipline.

In fact, there's a lot of science here that I want to share with you. Did you know that when you do things that you didn't want to do, like going outside for that walk, even though it's raining, the part of your brain that's called the anterior midsingulate cortex gets bigger. And when researchers look at this part of your brain, they see it as the seat of willpower. And not just willpower, but the actual will to live. And This is the only part of your brain that grows by doing things that you don't want to do. And so the weather isn't something for you to control, and it's not something that should control what you're doing. The weather is an opportunity for you to grow. So the next time it rains, don't complain. Just do what you planned on doing. Go out on that run, take that hike, go work in the yard, go walk the dog. It's going to help you. It's actually an opportunity to take control of your yourself, of your life, of your discipline. And for all you brides and grooms out there who are worried about the weather, the single best wedding that I was ever at was hit with this epic rain and hailstorm that literally came out of nowhere.

It was so big of a storm, one of those storms that comes across the Great Lakes in the Midwest, that one of the tents flooded. Literally the top of it ripped open and waterfalled onto to the dance floor. And to this day, Emily Glasser and Billy Sussman's wedding, 30 years later, is the single best wedding I have ever been to. The most memorable, the most fun. You want to know why? Not only because of the bride and the groom, but because of the storm. Maybe what your wedding needs is a good old-fashioned rainstorm. And maybe what you need is to learn how to run in the rain because They're bigger than the weather. So stop complaining about it because you can't control it. And that snow, by the way, it's cold, and tulips actually love cold weather, and they bloom longer when it's cold. So there's no reason to complain. I should be celebrating about it because you can control whether or not that weather bothers you or stops you from doing what you need to do. And now that you know that, you're going to not let that happen anymore. So let's move on to the second surprising thing that you're wasting time and energy on.

And that is, you cannot control the amount of time that you're forced to wait in line, but you can control what you do with your time while you're waiting. Let's go to an example involving traffic. I want you to think about sitting in your car, you're driving to work, and boom, all of a sudden you hit traffic. You may be sitting in traffic right now as you listen to me. And as you're in traffic, you start to get frustrated, don't you? You grip the wheel, and then you hem, and you ha, and you tense up, and you hit the GPS. Why? Why do you do that? By the time that you get to work, you're so exhausted because you worked yourself up. You just burned through so much energy in the car being angry that traffic was backed up and delayed. Did any of that anger and stress help you get to work faster? Of course not. Did it move the traffic? No. Did it free up a lane? No. This is why it's so dumb to allow things that you can't control to impact you. Or let's take another example. You're waiting in line at the post office.

You got your arms full of packages that you need to return. It's 2:15. The line is so long. You're out there on your lunch break. You're like, Oh, should I stay? Should I not? So now you've committed to staying in line. And all of a sudden, there's somebody at the front, and they're taking so long. Do you want insurance with this package, honey? You're like, Oh, my God. Are you kidding me with this? And you're now starting to get irritated. Do you need some stamps while you're here? Oh, my God. Are they You're really going to buy stamps right now? We've all had these moments. Oh, and then all of a sudden, you get close, and what does the clerk do? Oh, I got to go on my lunch break. Let me get somebody to fill in. And you're like, Oh, blah, blah. And these feelings of irritation and frustration, they rise up. Why? Because you feel like you're losing control of your time. You thought this was going to take five minutes. Fifteen minutes have passed by. I get it. You got somewhere to be. You got to get back to work. You squeeze this in on your lunch break, and now your lunch break is evaporating before your eyes.

We've all been there. You can't control when you're going to be forced to wait in line. But you can control what you do with your time while you're waiting. What if you were to look at this not as some sleight by society or the post office or traffic? What if you were to look at this as found time instead of lost time? Maybe this is just the universe giving you time back. I mean, let's go back to the traffic example again. You're driving along and all of a sudden things slow way down as everybody merges into a one-lane road. And guess what's right in front of you? A truck. Of course. And so you're winding and you're going slower. And in that moment, can you control what's happening? No. And there's no use to get yourself all stressed out or cause yourself some distress in your mind or start freaking out about it. And there's It's this great post that's gone really viral that talks about this exact moment when you get stuck behind a truck on a one-lane road and you're forced to slow down. It's a cue to yourself that this truck is sent by a Guardian angel.

It's slowing you down on purpose to avoid whatever is around the corner or at your destination or maybe somewhere along the way that's not meant for you or that may cause you harm. Do you see how that now puts you into control? So as you slow down, sip your coffee. And look at this as an opportunity to be grateful for this time and to practice having patience. And if it's at nighttime and this happens, just imagine that this truck is running point for you, lighting up the way. Isn't that a beautiful way to take control? Because you can't control the times where life slows you down. But you can control what you do with that time. And when you look at like a gift, you take the control back. And there's so many things you could do. You could turn on Rosetta Stone, one of the sponsors of this podcast, and listen to that French lesson that you started, but you haven't had time to finish. Or you could call a friend. This is one of my favorite things to do when I'm driving, hands-free, and just talk to somebody while you're driving behind that Guardian Angel truck.

You could start to see this as not lost time, but time that's been given back to you as an opportunity. You can even do this at the post office. So let's go back to the line at the post office. Instead of standing there getting frustrated and flustered, which only makes you feel like you're losing control, it only makes the time go by faster. What if you use this found time and you take a moment to text someone that you've been thinking about just to say hi? One goal of mine this year is to be more closely connected to my family. So I could use that time waiting in line as a sign from the universe that I just gained a moment to reach out to my nephews. They They were in a water polo tournament all weekend long, and I want to congratulate them on their wins. How cool is that? Or have an audiobook or a podcast like this one cued up so that you got something that is your go-to in those moments. Because you can't control the time when you're going to be forced to slow down or to wait. But you can control what you do with your time while you're waiting.

So make something important happen. That's what you can control. Even if what you make happen in those moments This is just practice staying calm, or being in the moment, or practicing gratitude. And the more that you do that, the more you'll realize how much time and energy you do have at your disposal to use in small and big ways. And you know what else you have in your control? Whether or not it bothers you when I take a quick pause to go to break and give a little air time to our sponsors who bring this podcast to you at zero cost. So don't you go anywhere. I know you want to know these three other things that you can't control. And trust me, the next one is a real doosy. Stay with me. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and I've been thinking it's time that you and I take our relationship to the next level. This may be a little bit forward of me, but I've got a gift that I want to give you. I've been working on this for a little while. It's a brand new free two-part video training that I created for you using principles of physics and neuroscience and all kinds of research to help you go from thinking about what you want to actually making it happen.

See, I want you to not only be inspired here on social media, I I want you and I to take it to the next level and get off social media. And let me coach you and teach you on how you, yes, you, can make the next six months of your life the best six months of your life. It's not going to happen by accident. It'll happen on purpose. Homey wants you to do it, too. There he is. Hi. You've got a gift for them, too? Oh, my gift is better because it's a free training that will help you change your life. All you got to do is go into the comments and type free, F-R-E-E. I'll DM you a link to the training. That's how easy you can make this training happen. Last time I did this last year, more than half a million people accepted this free gift. I hope this year you'll take our relationship to the next level and let me coach you on making the next six months of your life extraordinary. Let's make it happen together. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel, and we're talking about five surprising things that waste a lot of your time and energy and how to take your control back.

And so I now want to talk about the third thing that you cannot control that is taking up a lot of your mental and emotional energy. You cannot control the headlines, but you can control your headspace. Mel, what are you talking about? Well, let me tell you. There's a big difference between being informed about what's going on and getting inundated with things that are beyond your control that stress you out and freak you out. I'll tell you something. I used to be really stupid when it came to social media because I was passive. I'm going to explain what that means. Whatever it was that social media or the mass social media platform was serving up, I was just taking it in. Oh, yeah, just serve it up to me. Whatever headlines were on the news, that was what was filling my head space. Whatever was dropping into my social media feeds, that was what I was focused on. I'm here to tell you something. Enough with that. It's time to take control. You have to get proactive. Do not be passive about social media. You are handing your attention, which is one of your most precious commodities, A way for free as if it's nothing.

This is how you waste so much time and cause yourself so much stress. If you don't take control of this, your Instagram feed is going to start looking like the Home Shopping Network. You know what I'm talking about? Tiktok will become nothing but celebrity news and influencers. And if you find yourself mindlessly watching 34 hours of television, which, based on a recent study, is the average amount of time that Americans watch TV per week. And I think I just heard All of you listening in the other 193 countries where this show is syndicated go, Americans. Well, you also spend time mindlessly watching TV, and your attention is the single most important commodity that you have. I want to inspire you to get super proactive about where you direct it, regardless of how much time you're spending watching TV or wasting it on social media. I mean, those 34 hours could be directed at something that's important, something that matters, something that's going to make your life better, and something that you want to make happen instead of just mindlessly, passively giving it away, that's time you could use to get your masters. You could use that to launch a side business You could use that to get serious about healing past trauma or learning how to be happier.

Heck, just get to the gym, learn how to cook. Let me ask you something, what's something that you would love to make happen in your life? Are you being Are you proactive about your time and your attention? I mean, just imagine what would happen if you got super proactive about using social media to help you get what you want. This goes so far beyond common sense. In fact, researchers have found that people who use social media passively to browse content from other people are more likely to experience anxiety, depression, and stress. This is from a new study out of the UK that was published in the Journal of behavior and Information Technology. The same study found that if you're proactive about social media, meaning you create and share your own content without engaging passively on content with others and doomscrolling all the time, it has a positive impact, especially on your stress levels. It is so easy to make social media or the news outlets the villain in your life. But that just gives social media and the news all the power. You keep the power because you're in control of how you use these things, and I want you to start using them for good.

By getting proactive and figuring out how you can take control of this, it will support you and making important things happen in your own life because it can. So how do you do that? I remember about nine years ago, when I was first really getting into the media business, I started following Gary Vaneerchuk, and I'll tell you what, His content was so different than anyone else's because something came alive inside of me, and it became the content that I started engaging with. And it inspired me to start being more proactive about posting more content. And Instead of just sitting there wasting time, feeling jealous, and just getting stressed out and procrastinating on social media. And so you can choose who you follow. Because remember, you can't control the headlines, but you can control your headspace. And you do that by getting very proactive about who has access to you and who doesn't. And I know you want to do that because you made the choice to listen to this podcast, a podcast that can help you create a better life. So do that with your social media accounts. Unfollow accounts that make you feel bad, and start following people and accounts proactively that make you feel great about yourself, that inspire you to get proactive and start taking action in your own life.

And by the way, whoever you think is spending way too much time on social media or follows a ton of influencers or celebrities or accounts that make them feel bad or you're worried about them, send them this episode, because if they won't listen to you or they don't really think about it this way, maybe listening to this conversation will inspire them to take their attention and time seriously. It'll help them not only think differently, but act differently in this area of your life. And if you're listening to this right now because you're a friend or your mom or your dad or somebody that loves you sent you this episode, I want to tell you something. You are capable of creating amazing things in your life. Take your time seriously. Guard your attention like a Hawk. And get proactive. Stop being so damn passive with social media. Get proactive. You're learning about the five things that you can't control that waste your time and energy. And this is a huge one that does. And when you start directing your time and energy to the things that you can control, like how you're using social media, who gets your attention, how you engage with it, holy cow, your stress is going to lower, you're going to get more time back, your life is going to change.

And we're just into the first three. We're going to take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors. I'm going to get proactive about this. And while you're listening, take a minute and share this episode to the person who needs to hear it. And when we come back, I'm going to be waiting for you after a We're going to break. We've got two more things that we're going to cover. And these are the most important, in my opinion, because these are the two most profound, surprising places where you're wasting time and energy and where I want you to learn how to take control. Stay with me. Oh my God. It's spring in Vermont. I'm ready to make something happen, aren't you? Awesome. Let's spring into action because action is the answer. You don't need motivation. You need to know how to make it happen. My free training this year is about execution. I want to teach you the The science, the physics, the neuroscience, all the strategies you need to move from thinking about what you need to do to springing into action and making cool stuff happen. It's free. More than half a million people have registered.

Do not miss out on this opportunity to let me not only inspire you, but teach you what you need to know so that this is the year that you finally execute on everything that you've been thinking about that you deserve to make happen in your life. All right? Melrobbins. Com/makithappen. Baby, boom. Let's do this together. I can't wait for you to see the trainings and to experience the workbook and to see yourself actually doing the things you want to do. Welcome back. You and I are talking about the five things that are stealing time and energy from you, and how to take control and get your power back so that you can focus your time and energy on what really matters. We're on number four, and here is the thing that you cannot control. You can't control the past, but you can control what you do in the present moment to help you move past it. No amount of regret is going to change the past. So all the time that you spend looking back and beating yourself up, it's just creating unnecessary emotional and mental distress. Yeah, you should look back and learn the lessons that you need to learn.

But when it comes to the things that you truly regret, or in my In that case, cringe, when you think about from your past, the best apology to other people and the most powerful form of forgiveness for yourself is a change in behavior now. When you change You have proven that you've learned the lesson and you've moved on and you've become a better you. And here's how you can do that. Make a decision today to start living your life in a way that makes you feel proud of yourself. Because it'll prove that you're no longer that person that you were in the past. Every single moment that you're looking backwards is wasted, and it keeps you from moving forward. The only way to move on from the things that you regret is to move forward. That's how I did it. There are entire decades that I regret about my life. If you listen to the episode about the lessons from my 20s, you heard about a lot of those regrets. But I'm really proud of who I've become and what I'm doing in my present life. That's why I don't waste any time and energy looking backward at the past.

And you can do the same thing. You can use the present moment to free yourself from the regrets you have in the past. Sitting there and thinking about what you did wrong or what you wish you had or hadn't done, doesn't do anything but make you feel bad. You can't control the past, but you can control what you do in the present moment to help you move past it. And here's how you're going to do that. First, would you give yourself more credit? Because you're not the same person that you were in the past. I mean, look at you. Heck, look at me for crying out loud. I'm no longer that anxiety-ridden, toxic person that I was in college. Back then, I had no idea what trauma was, that I was affected by it, that I had experienced it. I had no idea that I had ADHD or anxiety. I'd never been to therapy. I didn't even know how much I was actually suffering. I just thought I was completely screwed up. I'm not You're not the person anymore. And you're not the person you used to be either. So stop looking backwards. Look in the mirror.

Look at the person you are today. And please give yourself more credit. And the second thing I want you to do is ask yourself this: Starting today, what changes do you need to make that would make you really proud of yourself? Maybe you need to get up earlier. Maybe today is the day you quit vaping. Or maybe it's bringing a more positive and optimistic mood to your family, or to your roommates, or to your colleagues at work. You can control what you do in the present moment and who you become, and that's what helps you move past the things that you regret. Changing today proves that you're no longer the person that you used to be. And so starting today, I want you to make the most of your life moving forward. That's how you make big things happen. That's how you create a better future. And the final thing is that you can't control, but it costs you a lot of time and energy, the future. You can't control the future, but you will create it by what you do in the present. The future hasn't happened yet, so you might as well stop worrying about what's going to happen right now.

Stop worrying and stressing and being anxious about your future. It is a complete waste of your time. You You need to be worried about what you're doing today. Besides, I can tell you what's going to happen in the future. I can tell you who you're going to be in six months from today, based on your habits, your friend group, and the social media that you consume right now. That's how important the present is. See, what you're doing today has a bigger impact on the next six months than any amount of worry or anxiety could ever have. So if you're sitting there worried about your parents dying, like so many of you are, have you called Have you had a time today? If you're sitting there worried about what you're going to look like on your summer vacation, have you exercised today? You're worried about retiring? Have you even done a budget? Instead of watching other people's YouTube channels, today could be the day you start yours and you make it happen. Instead of wishing the weight would magically fall off by your vacation, today could be the day you make a plan and make it happen.

Instead of hoping that you'll get a promotion in the future, today could be the day that you schedule a meeting with your supervisor about what you need to do in order to make that happen in the next six months. See, the next six months are coming, whether you do something different or not. And I'm here to tell you, you don't need to worry about your future because your day-to-day life already predicts what it's going to look like. So unless you start doing something different today, we already know what's going to happen. So stop worrying, stop feeling anxious, and let's get proactive. Let's define what you want, and then let's make it happen. Let's get started today. Talk a little bit about what you were feeling and not knowing the words, depression, anxiety, anger. What was it like for you, Lorenzo, to be a kid and to lose your dad at 10 and to not have your mom around and to experience the racism and bias that you experienced in your life so that you can describe for people who may not have considered, Oh, he's describing how I feel. That's depression. He's describing how I feel.

That's anxiety. Tell us a little bit about what it was like for you.

A lot of it was just the way of life, honestly. I had... Honestly, I knew in many ways that I had a really good upbringing, which I really did. I believe my aunt and uncle did a really good job of ensuring that in so many ways that I was able to have the support that I needed. But beyond that, I knew that there was something not really right for the most part around the way that I felt about things.

How did you feel?

Lost, a lot of times very angry. And the reality of it was, maybe I blame it on, Oh, I don't like this teacher at school, or I'm not getting along with friends in the neighborhood. But the reality of it was, I didn't feel seen and heard because the truth for the matter, I didn't have my mother and father around, and I didn't share their love and that connection with them. So I didn't feel really seen and heard, and I did feel that I had been left out. And so I think in so many ways, I was struggling emotionally from those challenges and from the anxieties that came with that. Do they love me? Do Did I do something wrong? Is it a reason that they're not here? Did I have something to do with that? These are the questions that go on in a young person's head, especially when everything has not truly been explained because because I think one thing as adults, we want to ensure that our children have a great life. But I think giving them more of the stories sometimes may even hurt them to tell you the real story. And so I think in so many ways, that was my reality.

But the reality behind it is that I really struggled emotionally, and it really showed up in school. I was in a behavior health facility at the age of 10.

What is between That's what it means. Tell me about the people who have not worked in criminal justice like I have. What does behavioral health facility mean?

I went into a... Have some challenges in school and have been kicked out a few times. I think I was probably more in the third grade at that point, so couldn't stay in class. So it was, Hey, this is my next option.

Can I just say something? When you have kids that go undiagnosed with depression and anxiety and who feel invisible, of course, there will be behavioral issues. It makes me very angry and sad, Lorenzo, how many kids are getting disciplined because they, can't behave when the real issue is there are mental health challenges that the child is facing or there are learning style differences that the child has that are not recognized and addressed by the capable adults around them. It just makes me angry to hear that a third grader is being kicked out of school because Because of behavioral issues. Here you are, you're getting kicked out of school. You're having behavioral issues because you can't understand or tolerate this just swirl of emotion that you're feeling, and you end up in this behavioral health facility. What was that like?

Yeah, I was away for about two months. They did allow us to go home on weekends. It was mostly structured, seeing a therapist, going to do school during the day. But obviously, it was a very dark place to be at as a young kid, someone that I had never been away from home for that amount of time. I had just lost my dad, and really that was my way. I was really angry and upset from the loss of him. So that really swirled into challenges at school, which led me there. And I think that's the one thing that we have to recognize in society is that when someone is going through grief and those different challenges, that it can look different and it can manifest into mental health challenges.

And if you already felt lost in life and wondered if people cared about you and wondered where you belong, to have your dad then die, that only just kicks that in high gear. It doesn't surprise me that it comes out as anger. I think that's what happens a lot of time with men in particular, is you guys get sad and you guys experience loss or disappointment or bias or discrimination, and you shove it down. What happens when you shove all that down is that a volcano erupts, and that's what you're describing. And so a kid that needed grief counseling ends up acting out at school and then gets sent somewhere for behavioral health, which is just, again, pointing to how we fail people so much when it comes to challenges that we face emotionally and mentally. Is that when you learned that it might be anxiety or depression, or did they just calm you down and send you back to school?

I think I understood it more as this was a getaway because my dad had passed. It was just in my reality. It was a getaway from home to really process the loss of him and I think everything. So moving past that point, going back into school, there was also a sense of shame attached to where I had been. And I think this is where the stigma of mental health really shows up, because here I am going back to school. Oh, where have you been? I didn't see you in a while. And it's like, Yeah, I've been to this place. And trying to make it more cool than knowing it wasn't cool because not wanting to be ashamed. I think that's very common is, we think about mental health and have these conversations, it's because that's how it typically looks, where we don't really empower the situation more or less. And say, yeah, I was in this place, and it was different than what I'm really describing. But really, I'm describing it differently because I'm ashamed of where I really was. So I experienced that early on in life, which really also, I think, can be a part of our lived experience.

That's right. Because if you are surrounded by either a family or a community or an entire culture where there is shame or judgment for getting help or it's weak, if you are struggling emotionally or mentally. I always find it interesting that, for example, if you're in financial stress, you can't pay your freaking bills. I've been in that place where I can't put groceries on the table. I'm sitting there with the check card, and I'm like, Dear God, please let there be a computer failure and let this go through, because I know there's no money in this account, but maybe I'll swipe it and it'll work. Worrying about real financial stress is a form of anxiety.

It is.

Feeling shame that you can't pay your bills can lead to depression. And so these very real experiences that people have lead to mental health challenges that make it worse and make it harder for you to face it. But so you come back from this and you continue with school, and then you have one more incident, right? That really was a wake-up call for you.

Yeah.

Can you describe what happened?

Yeah. So later, I would say fast forward to being 17 years old. I moved past that point of going through that. And I would I went through my honeymoon period after post being a behavior health facility. And then I found myself joining a gang, and that led to me being incarcerated due to a fire arm. But I want to back up because I think one of the things that I really want to shine light on is it wasn't me joining a gang and being charged with a fire arm that really is old. But I want to really also encompass that the loss, again, the mental health challenges and the not being... African proverb to probably say, a child who does not feel warm from the village will burn it down. And I was that child that did not feel loved and seen. So everything moving forward was to be a detriment, not knowing that's really what I was causing. But however, it was a lash out on self as a, Hey, I'm going to put myself around these people and put myself around these risks. It's something that I internalized that also did manifest it to being a part of the legal system.

Your aunt and uncle must have been beside themselves with you because she does not seem like the woman that would play around. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, they were.

Yeah, they were very furious, to say the least, for sure. They were very... And honestly, they really did a really good job of instilling morals and just principles. I think that allowed me to become the person that I am today to really serve and obviously show up in the community the way I do, because they really stood on great things. But I think myself, knowing the challenges that I went through, I veered into that path.

Well, I think what happens, Lorenzo, and I don't know if this is true for you, so I would love to hear your thoughts on this, is that you were clearly in an environment in that barbershop with your aunt in particular, very tied to your values. When sorrow and despair and feeling lonely and invisible and all that grief hits, it can create a barrier between you and your ability to connect to those values and ground yourself there. You become lost in the swirl of emotion and anger. The proverb that you said that when a child doesn't feel warmed by the village, they'll burn it down. That's why anger rises to the surface when people feel isolated and unseen and when they're struggling. It doesn't surprise me that, first of all, mental health challenges are what led you to losing your way, but that ultimately, when you started to address the mental health challenges, you found yourself easily connecting back with those values. How did you turn it around? What was it? Was there a moment when you were incarcerated and you're 17 years old, where you're like, I got to turn this shit around. I'm either going down...

There are forks in the road in your life where you don't realize it in the moment, but you make one decision and it changes the rest of your life. So was there a moment where you had an epiphany as you're in this low place that you got to do something different? Like, what happened?

Yeah. I would never forget the week coming up to court. I just remember a lot of the kids in there, it was a lot of them would have been repeat offenders. They had been in and out. And we were finding out. Court was that Monday morning. It was like, figured out who was going to be my judge. It was this one particular judge that everyone was just like, Yeah, if you get this judge, they're going to lock you up longer. You'll be here longer. I was doing everything I could, praying like, Oh, I just hope I don't get to or a judge. I so happily got a judge that was very much opposite to what I think the other young people were saying while I was in there. But saying all this the same, that weekend, as I sat in there and I was getting ready for court, it just kept rumbling in my head that this was the same place that I was born in. This is where my father was. I just remember feeling just so hurt, so lost, so empty. I remember saying, If I could get out of this, I don't ever want to experience this again.

I'm 17 years old. I'm a month before being 18, and I'm supposed to be enjoying my last year of being in school at this time. I got tied up with a gun and following the wrong people. So So when I got to court that Monday, I was given a second chance. And a lot of it was because of my aunt. And I think them pleading with the court to give me another chance because I had never been in no proud trouble. And obviously, I just got caught up in a situation. But I remember promising the judge that if she could give me another chance that I would go to college, that she would never have to worry about finding me in the system again. And I kept my word. And I look back today, and that's something that I always said that I never wanted to do was to be a part, to have to go into that small room ever again and spend any time. And so I I think it was just a collective of just hating where I was in that moment, hated the way I felt, but also being scared to know that I could end up spending more time there if I didn't figure out how to get out of this situation or if it would continue.

And so that just led me to want to just change everything. And so, yeah, I think that was the turning point for me. That time that I spent in now, it was just really eye-opening, and I didn't really enjoy it. I hated every bit of it. And I think I just was so focused on wanting to be much better than I was. And I think it goes back again to just the values that my aunt and uncle really instilled in me growing up, despite my challenges that I went through, knowing that I could really create a life better for myself, regardless of where I had came from.

Well, I think it's so poignant what you said about the fact that you were reflecting on, this is where I was born, and this is not where I'm going to end up. My father's story is not going to be my story. It certainly isn't, because You went from that courtroom back to high school. You graduated. You never looked back. You then went to Arkansas Baptist College. What did you study there?

Human services.

For people that don't know what that means, what is human services?

Mostly, I think in a broader terms, it's supporting the quality of life and well-being of people, whether that's through economics, civil, social practices of uplifting people. So the work that I do, obviously, is supporting people to getting access to mental health services is, I think, a clear example of what I went to Arkansas Baptist College for. But it could also be as well as for supporting young people that may be at risk of going into the criminal justice system. Those are just, obviously, just pure examples.

Okay, so you graduate. What was it like to graduate? You're like, damn, I I did it. I'm going to take this photo and send it to that judge and tell her I kept my word.

It was an illuminating experience. Again, I think it was one of those K Can't believe we made it. Can't believe I made it. Again, the people that I grew up around, the folks that I had went to school with, and most of the people just grew up in an urban community in the South. It was just one of more things. It was either I'm going to go be an athlete and go to college, or I'm going to get lost to the streets and get on some drugs and never make it, or I may not make it at all, and I may be dead. It was just only a few options. Obviously, I wasn't an athlete, and I think the other two options just wasn't favorable. I did everything I could to know going to college, I really worked hard to ensure that I could get my way out of that. I'm glad that I saw the favorable road to work towards graduating and getting to this point.

Well, thank God you did, because your organization is now helping over 3 million people a year in terms of mental health advocacy. Let's talk about the fact that right after college, you went and worked with the Department of Human Services. You Now, I'm outlining your story, Lorenzo, because, again, you are an example of somebody who made a decision, who reconnected with his values, who leaned into the struggle who allowed himself to be vulnerable, and you turned your whole life around. Now you're taking all of this, and you've turned it into this incredible, incredible organization, the Confess Project, where you're helping millions of people. And your story and life is an example to all of us, that if there is some change you want to make in your life, it is possible to do it. And if you are willing to serve others, you will be blown away by the difference that you can make.

Tell me, I know you came a long way from the first book, The Five-Second Rule. So what got you thinking in this direction? What inspired this new piece of work you've now put out?

Well, I feel like, and your book opens with a faceplant into the oatmeal, right? Like that, both of us, the dark night of the soul, I think, is what brought me to this work. I have, for better or for worse, always either fallen into a hole or I've dug one for myself. And the result of a A lot of the work that I've shared that has really resonated is the result of needing to figure out how to build a ladder to climb out of a hole that I have found myself in or dug for myself. And the five second 5 Second Rule, which I put out five years ago after, of course, a profound breakdown in my life and has gone on to impact millions of people's lives. I'm super proud of the fact that it's had a huge impact in people's mental health and clinicians around the world use it. We had a whole group of inpatient nurses show up at the talk show I was hosting to tell me that of all the tools that they have inpatient when they discharge somebody, the 5 Second Rule is the most powerful one they've got because it's simple and it's easy to remember.

And when you're somebody that has cascading thoughts that put you in a very dark place, counting backwards 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 is an incredibly powerful tool. And even knowing, Dr. Nicole, that More than 111 people have stopped themselves from attempting suicide by using the five-second rule, I'm going to stand here right now and tell you that I personally feel that the high five habit and the tools that I share in this book that have such a profound overlap with the same tools that you're sharing with your community and with the world at large, this is going to be 100 times more profound because the five-second rule will help you interrupt patterns. The five-second rule will certainly help you push through emotions, feelings, triggers, trauma that can hold you back or make you feel paralyzed. But it doesn't actually heal the deeper stuff that is causing you so much pain. And so back to your original question about how I came upon the high five habit is I didn't sit down and say, okay, it's been five years. I better write a book with a five in it. That That would have been wonderful. I literally just woke up with a really familiar feeling in April of 2020.

And the feeling is one that we all have experienced in our lives, and we're all going to experience again. It's that feeling of being completely disconnected from yourself. It's feeling completely overwhelmed by your life. It's feeling emotionally depleted and just absolutely exhausted by the demands coming at you and the just overwhelming amount of stuff to do. And so on one particular morning, and I'll tell you the two days in this story that I think will really resonate with you, and I would love at any moment for you to stop and help me unpack this. But what happened is I woke up, and the worst place in the world for me is to lie in bed. Being a victim of sexual trauma, having been molested at the age of eight to in fourth grade, waking up from a sound sleep to having a kid on top of me, that moment of trauma, even though on the scale of what could happen to you, it was a one-off incident. It wasn't really scary. It was confusing. I immediately disassociated. I think that one experience locked into my nervous system two things: anxiety and disassociation as a response to any unnerving moment.

And the second thing it locked into place is that for the next, oh, boy, I don't know, 42 years, the first thing I felt when I woke up every morning was something's wrong. And I realized now that was probably a trauma response to the things I experienced in childhood. And It, right?

Yeah. The first reaction I was having and hearing in bed in particular, the intimacy of being in bed. In bed for many of us is where our thoughts get the best of us and our minds run, whether it's right before we go to sleep or when we arise in the morning. And I had anticipated you were going to talk about that aspect of it. So when you compound the intimacy of bed and sleep and the safety, if we don't feel safe, we can't even drift off to sleep. And again, oftentimes our mind run. So if you compound that with a trauma, with a violation, then in that intimate space of your bedroom where one is supposed to needs to be safe, then, of course, I can't imagine the impact that you carried, even outside of your awareness when you say dissociation. A lot of us disconnect. When things like that happen, when we're too young, it's too overwhelming, it's too confusing. We don't have the support around us to make sense of it. We leave. However, it doesn't mean it leaves us. And for many of us, even waking in the morning, it's when our cortisol is the highest.

Again, we have those racing thoughts. We have the whole day ahead of us, whatever that might bring. And then again, if for you, you were awoken in the middle of the night with something so violating, I can't even imagine what bed was for you, even if you weren't fully aware of it. It was still living in your body, in your emotion, and in your spirit.

Yeah, totally. And the next morning when I went downstairs because we were at this big family trip lots of families there, all the kids in a bunker room. When I got downstairs, my mom was cooking with all the moms, and she turned around and she goes, How do you sleep? I immediately wanted to tell her. Here's the interesting thing. I wasn't nervous about my mom's reaction because she's a farm gal. I knew she would take that spatule and probably clock the kid in the next week. There would be... The stuff would go down. I all of a sudden, froze because the kid, I could see him out of the corner of my eye, and I didn't know what he would do. And that was the moment that I locked a coping mechanism triggered by trauma into my being. And that is the second you're worried about a reaction, lie. Just say what you think is going to make the situation okay. And so I did. I said, fine. And it wasn't until probably 20 years later that I actually consciously remembered this or that I literally started talking about it. And then I spent another couple of decades trying to unwind the trauma and link it all together.

And I can really take it back probably even further. But that was really a defining moment for me.

Absolutely. Well, I want to thank you first and foremost. I should have thank you before I entered in there for sharing something so vulnerable. I know how difficult. For even for some of us coming to that truth ourselves, right? Having that. I'm even watching some comments. A couple of people on this live right now are having lightful moments. It's really hard to look at our past experiences with such raw honesty, because then along with it comes all of the feelings we have about everything that happened and everything that didn't happen to us. So I really want to honor that. And I have a question for you because you said something earlier, and I'm interested on how these two connect, and then, of course, how they connect to the high five habit and the new tool. When you talked about, I fall into holes, or I create them, you said something along that language. So how, in your opinion, do these is that pivotal moment, this tendency to lie, to continue, I'm sure, to remain disconnected from your authentic truth, because I know a lot of us, and I say this on the heels, actually, of recording a podcast myself on self-sabotage.

So talk to me about falling into those holes and how you believe these two, obviously, that pivotal moment and all of the coping that had happened, the onion, if you will, led you to creating those holes, and, of course, now finding your way out of it through this amazing new tool.

Well, it's so interesting that we're starting here, and it's actually perfect because I can say now being on the side of it, and particularly now that I've done EMDR, psychedelic guided modalities, I've gone headfirst into healing trauma. It's part of my day to day life to understand my trauma, to be compassionate with it, to heal it, to take care of myself. The high five habit has been extraordinary in that regard. We're going to get to it in a minute. But I want to try to be as careful as possible because I really get viscerally angry when I hear people people talk about how you're responsible for everything, because I don't fundamentally believe that. I feel I can see that because of things that happened to me, especially things that weren't my fault, I Whether that's the womb that you were in or your mother's dysregulation because she was a young teen mom like mine, away from her family and on edge, whether you were in a household with addiction or mental illness abandonment or whatever. None of that stuff is your fault. But I can now see how my own coping mechanisms, just because I didn't know any better, were the things that kept digging holes in my life.

The constant insecurity and trauma response that led me to always be worried about what other people thought, always felt that it was my job to keep the peace, always one step a step ahead of everybody to make sure I didn't get hurt. And I think a lot of even me and the pace that I've lived at comes from sleeping and waking up to something like that. And so there's been this experience for me that I'm now realizing that it was deeply internalized. If I'm moving, you can't catch me. And if I'm one step ahead of you, I can think about how to be manipulative. Well, not even being manipulative because I'm trying to manage your reaction to things. But it was all coming from a deep place of pain and coping mechanisms that my little fourth-grade brain grabbed in the moment. And so, yeah, I take full responsibility for the shit that I did, whether it was cheating on boyfriends or it was the amount of alcohol and addiction that I struggled with at times in my life, whether it was just awful gross, jealous, catty, comparison behavior, whether it was squandering. I mean, where do you want to go?

I mean, if I started to tell you what I used to be like, you feel like, well, Robin. Whoa, girl. Holy cow. And it's a lot of it's in the book. I mean, I like you. The anxiety was so profound. I have very, very few memories from basically 35 years until about eight years. And that was even while I was medicated on Zoloft. And I've only come to start to understand how one coping mechanism when you're in the fourth grade can spin out of control and become an entire pattern that controls your life. And you're so unaware that lying is a way of life and people-pleasing is a way of life. And looking outside your sofa validation and for love and for support is a way of life. And your work and this new high five habit in the process of writing it and the process of studying it and the process of uncovering all this research has truly been a pathway back home. I literally feel like that's what this is about. And I know you've experienced this. I know people in this community have experienced this. There's tremendous contentment and joy when you finally come back home to yourself and you reconnect with yourself.

There's also a lot of sadness because you realize for just how long you have been disconnected from attacking, loathing, criticizing. I think one of the reasons why this book is exploding so quickly, just like your work has, is because it's hitting something that's foundational for every human being. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, by God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you. So make sure you subscribe.