Transcript of A verdict in Texas. Inside Sean Combs’ sentencing. Plus, a look at a looming execution.

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My name's Chad Power. Streaming on Disney Plus. Glenn Powell is Chad Power.

Who is that guy?

He's doing a Mrs. Doubtfire. That was one hell of a performance. But with football. I like you, Power. You are a A brand new original series. Every choice, every mistake carried you to this spot. You were born for this moment. Threat, cry? Chad powers. A new original series exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hey, good morning. It's time for the Dateland story meeting.

A few people emailed it to me. It was an arrest after 31 years.

Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news.

It's after many times, so it was a violent thing.

Everybody sees a really A really smart business person. The defense says this is a grenade.

Welcome to Dateland True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's October ninth, and here's what's on our docket. In a federal courthouse in Manhattan, the sentencing of a rap mogul, Sean Combs spoke out for the first time.

He said, I beg for mercy.

In Dateland Roundup, emotions run high at the sentencing of a man convicted of murdering an Iowa farmer and father of four. Ghislaine Maxwell gets an answer from the Supreme Court. And in Massachusetts, a disgraced art dealer's murder trial goes off course.

His attorneys raise concerns about his ability to stand trial.

Plus, Lester Holt joins us to talk about his first podcast series, The Last Appeal, the case of a Texas man on death row, and the stakes could not be higher.

This is his third death date he's had over the last two decades, and options are dwindling for him.

But before all that, we're heading to a Texas courthouse where the fate of a woman accused of fatally poisoning her fifth husband was decided. Yesterday, the case against Sarah Hartsfield came to an end. She's the five-time bride accused of administering a lethal dose of insulin to her most recent husband, Joe Hartsfield, in 2023. While the state accused Sarah of fatally injecting her husband with insulin, the defense argued that Joe likely caused his own death with an accidental overdose. And As the trial unfolded, prosecutors focused not only on Joe's death, but on a series of alleged crimes from Sarah's past, none of which she's ever been charged with. Here to bring us the latest is Dateland's senior producer, Susan Lebowitz, who has been in the courtroom for it all and is here now with the latest from this big day in court. Hey, Susan.

Hi. Big day. Big day. Yeah.

So this has been a very eventful trial.

It sure has. We've heard a lot of emotional testimony from the victim's family and stories from the defendants' past, stretching back years. Then just yesterday, it all came to a swift end with the defense resting without calling any witnesses.

Sarah never testified. Right after that, they went into closing arguments. The state was up first, and they began their closings with a line from a poem.

It's a poem, by the way, that reminds me of so many datelines. But some people may know the line more as a saying, but it's from a poem by Sir Walter Scott. Listeners might recognize it, too.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

The prosecution is referring, obviously not just to this case, but a series of alleged crimes, which we've talked about before with our reporting.

That's right. Like the shooting death of her fiancé, David Bragg in 2018. Sarah claimed she shot in self-defense, and she was never charged with any crime. We've also talked about an alleged plot to murder Sarah's third husband's new wife. The FBI actually investigated, but the charges were never filed against Sarah. Sarah, and she denies all of it.

Okay, so this trial was about the death of Sarah's fifth husband, Joe Hartsfield, who prosecutors say was drawn to Sarah.

Right. Prosecutor said, just like a spider, a fly, Joe got caught in Sarah's web.

In their closings, also, the prosecution turned their attention towards knocking down the defense, of course.

Right. The prosecution said not to believe the defenses or the defendants' version of events. For instance, Sarah told friends that Joe died of a stroke, but the medical examiner listed Joe's cause of death as insulin poisoning, and the ME looked at his brain and confirmed there was no stroke. But she continued to tell people that's how he died, distancing herself from the idea of insulin poisoning. And of course, the big message from the prosecution during closings was that Sarah thought she could outsmart almost anyone.

The defendant thought she was the smartest person in any room and that no one could catch her and that she was going to get away with it because that's what she's all Waze done.

Did the prosecution have a theory of exactly how Sarah poisoned Joe?

The prosecution had to admit they didn't have the exact idea of when the insulin was introduced, how it happened, because there was no one else in the house but the two of them. In her closing argument, the prosecutor said she'd love to know exactly how Sarah did it, but that was part of the judge's instructions that she didn't have to prove exactly how or even why Sarah did it, motive not needed. The state told jurors But with everything they know about Sarah, these 12 people have the opportunity to fix the wrong and essentially protect others from Sarah's ways.

For the good of the community, for the good of the world, you 12 have to do something. For far too long, too many people have known and have done nothing. But you are ready and you have the opportunity and the duty to right this wrong. You can fix what other people have failed to do. You can stand up and you can say, enough, enough.

Then it was the defense's turn for their closing argument. What was their big message to the jury?

Their big message was similar to what they'd been alluding to the whole trial, that the prosecution is spinning a false narrative, that Joe Hartfield's manner of death was officially undetermined. It was not listed as a homicide, which is true, and that without knowing who or how the fetal dose of insulin was administered, the state didn't reach the bar to find her Sarah can only be held responsible for Joe's death if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that she administered insulin to him.

One, she didn't do that. Two, there's no proof, none.

How did the defense deal with all those other stories that came into testimony about Sarah's past? I mean, that is really hard to overcome with a jury when they hear all that.

Right. They said the state was focusing on unproven crimes rather than the actual murder charge because they simply didn't have enough to prove their case. And they went through it point by point and made it clear that Sarah was never charged. She wasn't even arrested in connection with any of it, and that shouldn't be a factor in their decision. And the defense basically said the case was all smoke and mirrors.

What did the state do? They trotted her children in to call her a bad person. The state wants you to look at all this unsubstantiated innuendo because they have no evidence that Sarah administrated insulin to Joe. How many people testified to extraneous offenses? What? Like 20? How many people testified that Sarah administered insulin to Joe? Zero.

The jury got the case. Jury's deliberated for about an hour, just an hour, before announcing they had a verdict. Let's take a listen. We, the jury, find the defendant, Sarah Hartfield, guilty of the offensive murder as alleged in the All right. Guilty. What was the reaction in court?

Lots of hugs, lots of tears. Joe's mom gave the prosecutor a big hug, and then everyone went right back to work.

So right after the trial entered the penalty phase, where jurors and the judge hear more testimony to consider what sentence Sarah Hartsfield should get. And as we learned last week in testimony, there's an open investigation into the shooting death of her fiancé from 2018. So this is not the end of our coverage of Sarah Hartsfield, is it?

Not for Dateland.

I think you're going to be busy for a while, Susan. Thank you so much for joining us and for bringing us this verdict that just came in. Thanks.

Just came in. Happy to share it with everyone.

Coming up, Sean Combs learned his fate. Now what?

Apparently, Auntie Mary's famous homemade dishes are actually ordered in, courtesy of Just Eat. Scandalous. And she's able to maintain this scrumptuous lie by getting €7 off her orders. So get your code in the app to get €7 off your favorite restaurants. Feed your family. Tell them you cooked it. Minimum spend €25. Participating stores only. Offer valid until 30th of November, 2025. See justeat. Ie for details. My name's Chad Power. Streaming on Disney Plus, Glenn Powell is Chad Power. Who is that guy? He's doing a Mrs. Doubtfire. That was one hell of a performance. But with football. I like you, Power. You are a puzzle. A brand new original series. Every choice, every mistake carried you to this spot. You were born for this moment. Are you crying? Chad Power, a new original series exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hey, good morning. It's time for the Dateland story meeting. A few people emailed it to me. It was an arrest after 31 years. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news. It's after many times, so it was a violent thing. Everybody sees a really, really smart business person.

The defense says this is a grenade. Welcome to Dateland True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's October ninth, and here's what's on our docket. In a federal courthouse in Manhattan, The Sentencing of a Rap Mogal. Sean Holmes spoke out for the first time. He said, I beg for mercy. In Dateline Roundup, emotions run high at the sentencing of a man convicted of murdering an Iowa farmer and father of four. Ghislaine Maxwell gets an answer from the Supreme Court. And in Massachusetts, a disgraced art dealer's murder trial goes off course. His attorneys raise concerns about his ability to stand trial. Plus, Lester Holt joins us to talk about his first podcast series, The Last Appeal, the case of a Texas man on death row, and the stakes could not be higher. This is his third death date he's had over the last two decades, and options are dwindling for him. But before all that, we're heading back to a Texas courthouse where the fate of a woman accused of fatally poisoning her fifth husband was decided. Yesterday, the case against Sarah Hartsfield came to an end. She's the five-time bride accused of administering a lethal dose of insulin to her most recent husband, Joe Hartsfield, in 2023.

While the state accused Sarah of fatally injecting her husband with insulin, the defense argued that Joe likely caused his own death with an accidental overdose. And as the trial unfolded, prosecutors focused not only on Joe's death, but on a series of alleged crimes from Sarah's past, none of which she's ever been charged with. Here to bring us the latest is Dateland's senior producer, Susan Leibowitz, who has been in the courtroom at all and is here now with the latest from this big day in court. Hey, Susan. Hi. Big day. Yeah. So this has been a very eventful trial. It sure has. We've heard a lot of emotional testimony from the victim's family and stories from the defendants' past, stretching back years. And then just yesterday, it all came to a swift end with the defense resting without calling any witnesses. Sarah never testified, and right after that, they went into closing arguments. The state was up first, and they began their closings with a from a poem. It's a poem, by the way, that reminds me of so many datelines. But some people may know the line more as a saying, but it's from a poem by Sir Walter Scott.

Listeners might recognize it, too. Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. The prosecution is referring, obviously not just to this case, but a series of alleged crimes, which we've talked about before with our reporting. That's right. Like the shooting death of her fiancé, David Bragg, 2018. Sarah claims she shot in self-defense, and she was never charged with any crime. We've also talked about an alleged plot to murder Sarah's third husband's new wife. The FBI actually investigated, but the charges were never filed against Sarah, and she denies all of it. Okay, so this trial was about the death of Sarah's fifth husband, Joe Hartsfield, who prosecutors say was drawn to Sarah. Right. Prosecutors said just like a spider, a fly, Joe got caught in Sarah's web. In their closing Things also the prosecution turned their attention towards knocking down the defense, of course. Right. The prosecution said not to believe the defenses or the defendants' version of events. For instance, Sarah told friends that Joe died of a stroke, but the medical examiner listed Joe's cause of death as insulin poisoning, and the M. E. Looked at his brain and confirmed there was no stroke, but she continued to tell people that's how he died, distancing herself from the idea of insulin poisoning.

Of course, the big message from the prosecution, during closings was that Sarah thought she could outsmart almost anyone. The defendant thought she was the smartest person in any room and that no one could catch her and that she was going to get away with it because that's what she's always done. Did the prosecution have a theory of exactly how Sarah poisoned Joe? The prosecution had to admit they didn't have the exact idea of when the insulin was introduced, how it happened, Because there was no one else in the house but the two of them. And in her closing argument, the prosecutor said she'd love to know exactly how Sarah did it. But that was part of the judge's instructions that she didn't have to prove exactly how or even why Sarah did it. Motive not needed. The state told jurors that with everything they know about Sarah, these 12 people had the opportunity to fix the wrong and essentially protect others from Sarah's ways. For the good of the community, for the good of the world, you 12 have to do something. For far Too long. Too many people have known and have done nothing.

But you are ready and you have the opportunity and the duty to write this wrong. You can fix what other people have failed to do. You can stand up and you can say, enough, enough. Then it was the defense's turn for their closing argument. What was their big message to the jury? Their big message was similar to what they'd been alluding to the whole trial, that the prosecution is spending false narrative that Joe Hartfield's manner of death was officially undetermined. It was not listed as a homicide, which is true, and that without knowing who or how the fetal dose of insulin was administered, the state didn't reach the bar to find her guilty. Sarah can only be held responsible for Joe's death if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that she administered insulin to him. One, she didn't do that. Two, there's no proof, Done. How did the defense deal with all those other stories that came into testimony about Sarah's past? I mean, that is really hard to overcome with a jury when they hear all that. Right. They said the state was focusing on unproven crimes rather than the actual murder charge because they simply didn't have enough to prove their case.

And they went through it point by point and made it clear that Sarah was never charged. She wasn't even arrested in connection with any of it, and that shouldn't be a factor in their decision. And the defense basically said the case was all smoke and mirrors. What did the state do? They trotted her children in to call her a bad person. The state wants you to look at all this unsubstantiated innuendo because they have no evidence that Sarah administrated insulin to Joe. How many people testified to extraneous offenses? What? Like 20? How many people testified that Sarah administered insulin to Joe? Zero. And the jury got the case. Jury's deliberated for about an hour, just an hour, before announcing they had a verdict. Let's take a listen. We, the jury, find the defendant, Sarah Hartfield, guilty of the offensive murder as alleged in the indictment. All right. Guilty. What was the reaction in court? Lots of hugs, lots of tears. Joe's mom gave the prosecutor a big hug, and then everyone went right back to work. So right after the verdict, the trial entered the penalty Fee phase where jurors and the judge hear more testimony to consider what sentence Sarah Hartsfield should get.

As we learned last week in testimony, there's an open investigation into the shooting death of her fiancé from 2018. This is not the end of our coverage of Sarah Hartsfield, is it? Not for Dateland. I think you're going to be busy for a while, Susan. Thank you so much for joining us and for bringing us this verdict that just came in. Thanks. The guest came in. Happy to share it with everyone. Coming up, Sean Combs learned his fate. Now what? Apparently, Auntie Mary's famous homemade dishes are actually ordered in, courtesy of Just Eat. Scandalous. And she's able to maintain this scrumptuous lie by getting €7 off her orders. So get your code in the app to get €7 off your favorite restaurant. Feed your family. Tell them, You Cooked It. Minimum spend €25. Participating stores only. Offer valid until 30th of November, 2025. See justeat. Ie for details.

Hey, guys. Willy Geist here, reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit Down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with Oscar winner, Kylian Murphy, to discuss the impact of the billion-dollar Oppenheimer movie on his life, and his extraordinary new Netflix film, Steve.

You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts.

I'm Julio Baqueiro, anchor of Noticias Telemundo.

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After an emotional hearing that left even some of his lawyers in tears, rat mogul, Sean Combs, stood before a judge late last week in a Manhattan federal courthouse to learn his fate. The sentencing was the culmination of a case we've been watching closely on the podcast since Combs stood trial this summer on charges of sex trafficking, racketeering, conspiracy, and transportation to engage in prostitution. The trial included testimony from his former girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, about drug-fueled sex parties Combs called freak-offs. The jury found Combs guilty of two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution, but acquitted him of the more serious charges. The prosecution asked that he be sentenced to 11 years in prison. The defense asked the judge to free him almost immediately, having already served more than a year in jail since his arrest. First. Here to tell us what the judge decided and what might be ahead for Holmes is NBC news entertainment correspondent, Chloe Malas, who was in court for sentencing. Welcome back to the show, Chloe.

Hey, Andrea. Great to be back. Yes.

I know we were just saying how we've missed you since There's been a big gap between the verdict and sentencing.

I know. I've had a whole summer of travels and back to school for the kids. It's really three months.

What was it like at the courthouse to have this finally take place?

I have to say that it It was a much different vibe than what I had experienced before for the verdict. And what I mean by that, Andrea, is it was very subdued. There were some fans of combs, but there weren't people dancing and singing and jumping up and down. And when the sentencing was handed down outside, it was silent. Inside the courtroom, it was packed, so packed that in the morning, the court officers, they had to actually add additional chairs. There were about 30 Five of Holmes's family and friends, and it was very tense. Combs looked incredibly stressed, and he turned around and looked at his family several times. It was such an emotional day in court. Andrea, so many tears from Holmes's children and Combs breaking down, sobbing multiple times.

Before the judge gave Combs his sentence, both the defense and the prosecution got to make arguments. Tell us about what the prosecution had to say.

Out of nowhere during the sentencing, prosecutors had this mic drop moment where they got up there and said, Combs is so certain he's getting out of prison that he has already signed up for these speaking engagements next week in Miami. And I think all of us were looking at each other like, what? He was working with a reentry program to teach business skills to formerly incarcerated individuals. On its face, that's fine, right? But to just assume that you're going to be getting out, you could definitely tell that it rubbed the judge the wrong way.

Yeah. So also there were letters from some of the women who had accused Holmes, including Cassie. She had written to the judge.

Yes. And she said, I still have nightmares. About Holmes, and I'm so worried that if he gets out, and I'm paraphrasing here, that he is going to seek retribution against me and others. But on the flip side, Combs had his own letters from family members, friends. And his mother, Janice, she wrote a letter, and she said, Look, Judge, I don't know how much time I have left. I know my son has done some terrible things, but we really need him home.

Chloe Combs himself had some words for the judge.

This was the first time that we heard Combs in his own words because he did not testify in his own defense. He cried, he sobbed, and he looked at his mother and he said, You raised me better. He apologized multiple times. He talked about wanting to be a better person. He said, I beg for mercy. So it was a very dramatic part of the day.

Well, going into this hearing on Friday, we heard up to this point so many people guessing how much time he would get. What he ended up getting, was it what people were thinking?

It's what Chloe Malas was thinking. Each count, yes, carried a tenure maximum. But the probation Department even recommended between five and seven years. So I knew that the judge was likely not going to go over that. I said four years. So the judge came in at four years and two months. So I was really close.

What was the judge's reasoning behind the sentence that he gave Combs?

So the judge talked about all of the different evidence that he had heard during the trial. And although Combs was acquitted of sex trafficking and racketeering, the judge, according to the law, has the right to weigh all evidence that was brought forth at trial. That's the domestic violence against Cassie Ventura, against Jane. It's all sorts of different testimony. And the judge said, I have to make an example, not only to deter other people from engaging in prostitution and all of the different things that Holmes was charged with, but also to encourage victims to come forward. And the judge praised Cassie, praised Jane, although they weren't in the courtroom and said, You guys were so strong to come forward and share your stories of this horrific violence. And he said to Holmes, You're going to serve hard time away from your family, but you will get a second chance at life one day.

Chloe, you actually got a chance to speak to Brian Steele from the defense team after the sentencing?

Yes. And he came across the street and spoke to me.

It was very painful. I was truly hoping for Sean to be coming home to his family. It was very disappointing.

And he said that they are going to file an appeal.

What are the chances, Chloe, that he serves the full sentence?

Let's do some math. He served a little over a year. So that puts you at right over three years because he's going to get time served. And then for good behavior, you get about 15 % off. I think sooner than later, Andrea, we're going to be sitting here talking about Holmes' first interview post-release, right? Who knows? He'll write a book, maybe he'll put out more music. But this is far from the last time that we've heard from Holmes, and I think it's going to go by in a blink.

And also, Chloe, just the civil suits, there's still a lot hanging over his head with regards to that.

Andrea, there are dozens of civil cases against Holmes, and he is paying a lot of money with an entirely separate legal team to fight those. And so he has a long road financially ahead of him.

Okay. Well, thank you for bringing us all these updates, Chloe. Great to have you back.

It's great to be back.

Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. Emotions run high at the sentencing of an Iowa man convicted of a farmhouse murder, and updates in the cases of Galaine Maxwell and Brian Walsh. Plus, Lester stops by to talk about his first podcast series for Dateline.

Apparently, Auntie Mary's famous homemade dishes are actually ordered in, courtesy of Just Eat. Scandalous. And she's able to maintain this scrumptuous lie by getting €7 off her orders. So get €7 off Bougeum, Milano, Centra, and more. Feed your family. Tell them you cook this.

Minimum spend €25.

Participating stores only. Offer valid until 30th of November, 2025. See justeat. Ie for details.

Welcome back. Joining us for Roundup this week is Dateline producer Mike Nardi. Hey, Mike.

Hey, Andrea.

So first up, let's go to Iowa, where emotions ran high in the courtroom last week at the sentencing of Houston Danker. He is the lover of Karina Cooper, the Iowa woman convicted of plotting to murder her husband, Ryan, at their farmhouse in 2021. We have covered this case a lot on the podcast. Mike, what's new?

Well, Andrea, it seems the case has finally come to an end. As you might remember, Houston Danker, Karina's lover and co-defendant, pleaded guilty to first-degree murder back in August. Just last week, when it was his turn for sentencing, the judge gave him life in prison without the possibility of parole.

The family of Ryan Cooper, the victim, was there. Did they have victim impact statements to read, Mike?

They did, Andrea. For the sentencing, the victim's sister gave a very moving victim impact statement. This is her second time giving such a statement in less than a month because she was there for Karina's sentencing as well. Take a listen to some of what she said.

Their plan to murder my brother was just an item on their checklist, just an agenda item on their way to building a dream life together. A sick, disgusting plan to achieve their dreams. But what about my brother's dreams? It's so heartbreaking for that family to have to go through that. Let's move on to our next story in the case of Ghislaine Maxwell, convicted sex trafficker and former girlfriend of disgraced New York financier Jeffrey Epstein. Maxwell filed an appeal with the Supreme Court back in April. Mike, what did her attorney say were the grounds for the appeal?

In 2008, Jeffrey Epstein pleaded guilty to one count of soliciting prostitution and soliciting prostitution of a minor as part of a non-prosecution agreement with the state of Florida. Part of that agreement states the United States also agrees that it will not institute any criminal charges against any potential co-conspirators of Epstein. Attorneys for Maxwell argued this clause in the agreement should also apply to her case in New York.

Okay, what did they decide?

Early this week, the Supreme Court declined to hear Maxwell's appeal, which means her conviction stands and she will continue serving her 20-year prison term.

Yeah, it seems like Supreme Court would be final shot, but maybe not?

Maybe not. Earlier this week, President Trump was asked if he would consider pardoning Maxwell for her crimes. He responded to reporters saying he'd have to look at it, which suggests a pardon isn't completely off the table.

Moving on to Massachusetts for our final update this week, the case of Anna Walsh, a real estate executive who was last seen on New Year's Day in 2023. Even though Anna's body has never been found, her husband, Brian Walsh, is accused of murdering her and dismembering her body. Remember, he had pleaded guilty to selling Phony Andy Warhol paintings a few years before Anna disappeared, So Mike, remind us how these two cases are connected, if at all. We know there's a common denominator with both of them, but are they connected?

Right. Well, Andrea, prosecutors believe that they are. They allege Walsh murdered his wife as a way to avoid prison time in that federal art fraud scheme. They argue that Walsh believed if his wife was dead, he would be the only living parent of the couple's three children, and the judge would show him leniency at sentencing. He was also the beneficiary of a large life insurance policy, but it didn't work as he had supposedly planned. A year after Anna's disappearance, Brian Walsh was sentenced to three years in prison for that art fraud case.

Walsh has pleaded not guilty to the murder charges, and trial was expected to begin this month, but the case has hit a snag just this week?

That's right. Some listeners might recall Brian Walsh was stabbed in a Massachusetts jail last month. Because of that incident, his attorneys raised concerns about his ability to stand trial. So the judge has ordered Walsh to undergo a 20-day competency evaluation at a local psychiatric hospital.

All right. We'll be on the lookout for that. That is it for Roundup. Thank you so much for all these updates, Mike.

Always a pleasure, Andrea.

On the morning of January 31, 2002, Robert Robertson walked into a hospital in Texas with his two-year-old daughter, Nikki. She was unconscious and had suffered a massive brain injury. Robert said she had fallen off the bed, but staff at the hospital suspect did something much more sinister, abuse. The next evening, Nikki was taken off life support and died. A jury convicted Robert of capital murder in 2003 and sentenced him to death. On October 16th, he is scheduled to die by lethal injection. But a growing chorus of voices believes he is innocent. And that story is the subject of a new podcast from Dateland, The Last Appeal, hosted by our very own Lester Holt.

How are you preparing for your own death, your own execution?

I'm at peace if it happens, but I'm not ready because I don't think I should be executed when I'm innocent. Lester joins us now to tell us all about this case and why some believe the evidence needs another look before it's too late. Lester, thanks for joining us.

Of course, Andrea. Good to be with you.

Yeah, Lester, why did you want to examine this story for your first Dateland podcast? What was it about this case?

Well, this is a carry-over from my last job, if you will, at Nightly News. We began covering this story when we're hearing these stories of the members of the state legislature, both Republicans and Democrats, agreeing that there was something wrong with this case and calling for a new trial. That in itself is pretty extraordinary, given the times we're in. I interviewed Robert during my first trip down there a year ago, and then interviewed him again a few weeks ago as he is in yet another countdown. This is his third death date he's had over the last two decades. Right now, options are dwindling for him. His supporters continue to say there's new evidence. We found, in fact, as we hit the road in Texas a few weeks ago, there's plenty the jury didn't hear, and there are some questions.

Yeah. What's really cool about this, Lester, is that you actually were just knocking on doors. People didn't even know you were coming.

Yeah. The huge difference, of course, between doing a podcast and a typical dateland, and I had to get used to that because for 45 years, I've been working around cameras. But what I found is with this particular medium, you can be a lot more intimate, you can be less intrusive, you can come into people's lives and get them to really let their guard down a little bit in a good way and have an organic conversation. We certainly found that there were people who were touching various parts of the story that we wanted to talk to, people who had never spoken before, like the emergency room nurse who was there when Robert brought his daughter in that day to the ER.

Yeah. Why back in 2002, when Robertson walked into the hospital with Nicki, why did the medical staff so quickly become suspicious, suspecting abuse?

Well, it's a good question because one of them was his actions or maybe inactions. This nurse we spoke to said his expressions, his vocal pattern, they said he didn't sound like he was concerned. As the nurse said, this didn't seem like a guy whose daughter was fighting for her life. We later found out through his attorney who had put him through some testing that he has autism, and that, experts say, could explain some of the behavior things that some people thought were suspicious.

Yeah. A pediatric specialist concluded that Nikki's brain injury was probably caused by shaken baby syndrome. But in the podcast, you talk about how that diagnosis has really come under fire over the past few decades.

Yeah. Later, research has started moving away from that. Some say discredited, but others say certainly has weakened the argument for this. Texas has a junk science law. Basically, it says if you were convicted under what is now discredited science, that you can get another day in court.

One of Robert's lawyers, a woman named Gretchen Swinn, she used that to request a new trial to get Robert's execution date stopped in 2016. She became a big part of your podcast, and she's trying to figure out what other possible explanations there could be for Nikki's injuries, and she made some discoveries.

Yeah, she's a pretty remarkable lady. There were some things that didn't add up. One of them was there were scans, CT scans taken of Nikki's head shortly after she was admitted in the emergency room. Well, those scans went missing for like 15 years. They were ultimately found in the courthouse, and in a view of the defense experts, it did indicate that it was a contradiction of what the medical examiner said, that she had suffered multiple wounds to the head, suggesting that maybe she had been abused. Gretchen says this information from the scan shows otherwise.

We should mention that prosecutors have stuck to their guns and said that the evidence against Robert is overwhelming. A judge agreed in 2021, putting him back on track for his execution next week. You went to death row and you spoke to Robert, which we heard a little bit at the top. What was your impression of him, Lester?

Twice I've met him, and my impression of him was that he is very simple, and I don't mean that in a pejorative term, but you really get the sense that he feels like, Well, if I didn't do it, why am I here? Which is, yes, that's the larger question, but from him, I hear it sometimes as a a sense of, I don't get it. I don't understand this. I told you I didn't do it. So he maintains his innocence and and expresses this bewilderment as to why he is in this situation.

Well, this is as serious as it gets. His execution date is fast approaching, what are the final steps for his defense team?

I suspect we're going to hear more motions from them. As I say, anything can happen. But truly, time is running out.

Lester, thanks so much for speaking with us about this important I know you have worked really, really hard on this, and the stakes are very, very high.

Yeah, they are. Andrea, thanks very much. Great to be on.

All episodes of the podcast are out now, so check out The Last Appeal wherever you get your podcasts. Since this episode was first published, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals issued a stay of execution for Robert Robertson, sending the case back to the trial court to take another look at the science used to convict him. That That's it for this episode of Dateland True Crime Weekly. To get ad-free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. And coming up this Friday on Dateline, the murder of a Palm Springs socialite takes investigators down a dark and mysterious path in the desert.

It was like Alice in Wonderland falling into a rabbit hole.

Watch The Prince, The Whizz-Kid, and The Millionaire this Friday at 9: 08 Central on NBC. Thanks for listening. Dateland True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins and Katie Ferguson. Our associate producers are Caroline Casey and Logan Johnson. Our senior producer is Liz Brown-Kurloff. Production and fact-checking helped by Sara Khadir. Veronica Mzezeca is our digital producer. Hazik Brown is Sound Designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer, and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateland.

Okay. Anybody else? Anything? No. Anything. No. Okay. All right. Thanks, everybody.

Mcdonald's burgers are prepared to order, and the patties are made from whole cuts of beef sourced from farms across Ireland, with a pinch of salt and pepper. Nothing else.

There's not much else to say, really. That sizzle speaks louder than words.

Served after 11: 00 AM, subject to availability.