Transcript of Hamas hands over bodies of four Israeli hostages in Gaza | BBC News

We start in the Middle East, where in the past few minutes, the bodies of four Israeli hostages have been transferred back to Israel. They include Shiri Bibaas and her children, Ariel and Khafir. Also being returned is the body of Oded Lipschitz, a veteran journalist and peace activist in his mid-80s. The bodies in coffins were handed over to the Red Cross by Hamas in a stage-managed ceremony in Khan Younes a short time ago. Meanwhile, Hamas has said it's ready to release all the hostages in one go, including those expected to be freed in phase 2 of the ceasefire agreement. The offer, which would involve more than 60 people, is dependent on a full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza and an agreement for a permanent end to the war. Well, these are live pictures now of Khan Younes, which is where the ceremony was held a few moments ago, and the crowd starting to disperse there after the Red Cross vehicles set off with the coffins inside them. Well, let's also have a look at the scene in Tel Aviv, which is Hostages Square, which is where the focal point has been for the families of the hostages who are being held in Gaza all this time, and for them a grim day, as it's the first time during this exchange of hostages that these have been bodies rather than people who are alive coming home.

Let's speak to our correspondence, Sebastian Asha, who's in Jerusalem. So it's a very somber day for Israel, isn't it?

Yes. I mean, some of the The previous handovers we've described as being a bitter sweet occasion, where there's been joy at seeing hostages return, all of them alive until now, but also concern over the condition that they've been released in and concern over how they will manage after what they've been through. Today, we have seen nothing of that. We've seen caskets containing four of the bodies. Hamas gave a list who they were. You said in your introduction there, the Biba's family, that's a mother, Shiri, and her two young children. Their faces are on the covers of Israeli newspapers today, one of which the headline reads The Pain, the anger and the Sorrow, and those are the emotions that are certainly being felt in Israel. The fourth, as you said, was Odeid Lipschitz, who was a peace activist. His wife, yesterday on Israeli TV, said that she felt that he'd been betrayed by the Palestinians that he ended up in a coffin after being held hostage in Gaza. The bodies will now be taken by the Red Cross. They'll be handed over to Israel. There'll be a ceremony where a military rabbi will conduct prayers over their caskets, and then they'll be taken to a hospital in Israel where the job, the task of the forensic identification will begin.

That could take many hours. Until then, the Israeli government isn't formally saying and identifying who the bodies are. But as I say, across all of the Israeli media, across the world media, those names are there. And those two young children, those two boys, and the mother Shiri, of course, are the two most potent symbols in Israel and for many people across the world, both of what happened on October the seventh, 2023, in the Hamas led attacks on Israel. And since then, the ordeal that the hostages who taken, around 250, into Gaza, those who've been released, those who remain, and those, as we're now seeing, who died.

What's the reaction been, if any, so far to the way this has been carried out? The Red Cross had hoped for what they described as a dignified handover. Tell us a little bit about the way this was handled by Hamas.

Yes. I mean, not only dignified, the Red Cross said, but private, and certainly this wasn't private. As we've seen, This is the seventh such handover now. We saw similar choreography as we've seen before. We've seen the serried ranks of Hamas fighters and other armed factions lined up. We've seen crowds behind them. This is stage in Han Younes in a place of devastation. Again, a platform which a Red Cross representative came up and went through the formalities that Hamas has insisted on of signing papers which are then stamped by a Hamas Hamas fighter in a mask. Then the bodies for the first time in coffins were released. They were taken by fighters to the white ambulances that were waiting for them. Very much and the engage manager, again, are very much trying to send a message. I think the message this time that Hamas and the other factions are trying to send is to put the blame on the Israeli government, and specifically on the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. There was a black clock off across the main poster that was behind the platform until almost the ceremony began, if one can call it that.

It then was pulled away to reveal a caricature of Mr. Netanyahu with blood and accusing him of being the murderer of these four hostages. That clearly is something that will cause greater anger and distaste in Israel than even what we've seen so far in the previous handovers, where Israelis were disgusted by what they saw as a propaganda event staged by Hamas. Now that these are coffins, and presumably, although this still has to be 100% made clear when the forensic identification has taken place, of two tiny children will will only exacerbate that. It is a day of sorrow.

Sebastian Asha, thank you very much indeed for your analysis there. Thank you. I want to speak now to Dr. Ajay Helyar, Senior Associate Fellow at the Security Think Tank, RUSI. Thanks very much indeed for being with us. So a fairly grim milestone on this process of exchanging hostages as part of a ceasefire deal. What's your reaction to the way this latest one has been carried out?

Thank you and good morning from me on your program. I don't think it's terribly surprising that Hamas would use this opportunity to carry out such a spectacle. I think what we have to think about at this stage is what this means then for how the Israeli government proceeds on progressing to phase 2 of the CISFA. As your viewers will know, this phase 1, phase 2, phase 3, we're coming to the very end of phase 1, and phase 2 is meant to begin fairly soon. Negotiations should have already begun in earnest. They haven't. The Israeli government still hasn't sent a negotiation team with a mandate to negotiate for phase 2. And phase 2 is really where withdrawal of Israeli military forces on the ground in Gaza are withdrawn, and you really get to the stages of ceasefire. Whereas right now, of course, these are pauses. They're intermittent pauses, I might say. You've had more than 100 people killed in Gaza by Israeli forces just over the past few weeks during the ceasefire. So I think we're at a very delicate moment because the ceasefire could indeed fall apart at any time, especially in the next week or so, especially against the background of talk around removing all Palestinians from Gaza for the, quote, unquote, the Rivera plan that the Trump administration has put forward and which has been quite enthusiastically accepted by the Israelis.

It's a very, very difficult time, a very difficult moment in order to avoid further bloodshed and suffering.

Yes, so it's because we're expecting at the moment six living hostages to be exchanged on Saturday. That would theoretically be the end of phase one, is that Well, no, because you're correct in terms of the hostages on the Israeli side being released.

Of course, there are many being held who are Palestinians in Israeli detention. But also the end of phase one has to begin with the beginning of phase two. Otherwise, phase one just continues, but without much happening on the ground in terms of of Israeli withdrawal. In order for phase 2 to take place, there needs to be that negotiation process about the details. We just haven't seen that really begin at all. Again, we've seen signs that the Israeli government doesn't want to move to phase 2. Remember, phase 2 is then followed by phase 3, and phase 3 is all about reconstruction of Gaza. Why would anybody be thinking seriously about reconstruction of Gaza if all Palestinians in Gaza are meant to leave and the Riviera Plan is supposed to come into effect. Keeping in mind, the Riviera Plan is proposed by the American government, which is supposed to be a mediator and a guarantee of the ceasefire deal. It's already been accepted by the Israeli government, which is one side in the ceasefire deal. So this is all extremely stabilizing.

And what did you make of... We've heard from Hamas in the last day or so that they seem to be saying that they would be to release all the hostages in one go, including those that were expected to be freed in phase 2. But they've said, obviously, that would be dependent on the full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza. How likely a scenario is that?

I don't think it's likely at all. I think that, frankly, they probably know it's not likely at all because the Israelis aren't going to commit to a full withdrawal outside of phase 2. And I'm not convinced that they'll do so even in phase 2. What we've seen in the Israeli press over the last couple of weeks are indications that the Israelis intend to actually prolong phase 1, but to prolong phase 1 in a way that combines elements of phase 1 and Phase 2. So no withdrawal of Israeli forces on the ground, but more and more hostage releases, perhaps more releases of Palestinians that are being detained, And there are many hundreds, of course, in Israeli detention facilities and jails, but without a withdrawal. So in that regard, continue phase one or extend Phase 1, but really change Phase 1 so it's no longer Phase 1, but not really going to phase two either. At that point, frankly, the ceasefire has fallen apart, and we've just come into a new arena where there's less of a war on Gaza, but there's still hostilities, Or we could see the entire thing fall apart, where the Israelis turn around and say, No, we're going back to war.

This has been openly called for by different Israeli politicians, including cabinet ministers, not just over the past few days, but over the entirety of the ceasefire period. You had one cabinet minister leave the cabinet saying, I'll come back when we go back to war. You had one cabinet minister say, I'm staying because I know that at the end of phase one, we're going to go back to war. The Israeli press has been awash with these sorts of things over the past month. It's a very, very difficult moment, a very delicate one, where we could indeed see the entire thing fall apart.

Dr. Ecehalia, thank you very much indeed for sharing your thoughts on the subject. Thank you.